American students head to Germany for free college • Hacker News Board

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#251

Post by kaitai » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 3:58 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #185

kaitai wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: I wonder if one reason the US doesn't do formalized tracking of this sort is that it would be distasteful to formalize the inequalities in our system, but yet we don't have the stomach to actually provide equal opportunities. We have de facto tracking by parental income and social capital. Look at the other thread about high school kids taking AP computer science: AP CS is basically a class that i…

> Look at the other thread about high school kids taking AP computer science: AP CS is basically a class that is only offered if the parents agitate for it and the district has the money. Somehow in Mississippi this just doesn't happen, and we are fine with that as a nation. Keeps us wringing our hands about who says what words in the workplace instead of having to make a substantive change in what we offer students.…

Overall, I agree, but as someone who's been in the fight for good treatment for all for a long time, I've started to worry that we're being misdirected to the wrong fights -- distracted by the obvious rather than looking deeper. Among other things, I teach at a university. I just don't get a lot of students from certain backgrounds, and it's not because of the problems at tech companies. It's because of the economic concerns of parents and the culture that we've passed to children. By college or the master's level half the community I grew up with are just not even on the same track. Maybe part of it is that we drag kids who would be great electricians through some inferior faux-college-prep charade instead of giving them an actual good education. Having taught precalc at the college level those students would have been better prepared for college by taking a shop class that involved using fractions and trig than by taking all four years of what math they actually took.

The parent comment to my previous one implied that we in the US have equality of opportunity, unlike Germany with its tracking. I am experimenting with the argument that we in the US say all the right things and yet insidiously do worse. Our rhetoric and our reality in the United States don't really line up. My high school had International Baccalaureate classes open to all, but only some kids signed up. How have we built this self-perpetuating organism of inequality that plods along even though we say all sorts of "correct" things? Even in Mississippi people are publicly concerned with race, gender, and sexual-orientation-based harassment. And yet.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#252

Post by eru » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 4:56 AM UTC

darkhorn wrote: post #250

eru wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at METU for Erasmus. It was fun and I recommend it! But do not go for the academic quality. The best courses were just on par with the average course I had at a no-name German university. I don't know how they came up with the top 100 ranking---perhaps it's based on research?

Methodology -> Criteria and Weighting -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Higher_Education_World_Un... For the academic quality, I don't know foreign universities thus I cannot compare them. But at least I can say that almost all teachers are professors and most of them are idealist. And in order to be an academic member at METU you must get at least one degree (B.S or masters etc) abroad. My teachers were not best…

The best teacher I had at METU was an older professor teaching (mathematical) combinatorics. Contrary to regulations at the university, he lectured in Turkish---but appointed a translator for me.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#253

Post by eru » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 4:56 AM UTC

interdrift wrote: post #248

eru wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true if all you are looking for is knowledge. University also gives you contacts and a piece of paper.

Isn't that the point - knowledge?

Not really. As said, you can get knowledge from other sources. Now more so than ever.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#254

Post by jacalata » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 1:43 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #217

jacalata wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: >Germany wants these international students here, even though their taxpayers foot the bill. >“Germany is not a country that's growing,” Malone says. “Its population is not growing. They need people, they need immigrants. They want to be a migration country.” >Think about it this way: it’s a global game of collecting talent. All of these students are the trading cards, and the collectors are countri…

If you're willing to shell out tens of thousands of euros to attract "talent", why not just give already educated people money to become Germans?

It doesn't require the same level of commitment from them - giving people money to become citizens would likely result in a lot of new German citizens that live outside Germany and have your money. If you want to require them to stay in Germany, now you have to set up a new area of regulations and enforcement and so on and people will be less interested because you are 'trapping' them. If you give them an education instead, you are de facto requiring them to commit several years to living in Germany, and hopefully building ties to the country that make them want to stay after they get the free education - and you didn't have to set up any kind of new rules to handle them.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#255

Post by ownagefool » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 2:41 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #241

ownagefool wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contract for GOV.UK or finance, high end will see you those rates with 2 weeks holiday + the 8 bank holidays. Look for the word devops for example. Health care is the obvious one. University has kinda jumped the shark though. Trust schemes or defer forever, depending on your attitude to risk. I'm not saying said schemes should be used, just that it's popular and skews what people really earn.

How do you avoid the taxes, though? And why would you put up with only 2 weeks holiday anywhere in Europe? I'm not sure that's even legal.

You can opt out of the work hours regulations, but even if you don't as a contractor you will be running your own Ltd, so unless you're liable to sue yourself, you'll be fine with 2 weeks holiday which is comparable to the US. Of course you can take more, but as a contractor you get paid per day, so it'll affect your earnings.

Avoiding tax once you're not PAYE is pretty easy, there are loads of loopholes but the government sanctioned method is to take £40k per year at under 20% and leave the rest in the company. If you have a non-working spouce, this becomes £80000. You can also contrib, I believe, £40k to a pension, double again for your spouce and set yourself up for a super early retirement.

If you're open to more risk, there are loan based trust systems that'll get you access to your money a lot quicker. They're currently totally legal but the government does make a lot of noise about shutting them down.

Point being, earnings aren't reflective of wealth in the UK and you can do well here too as sadly, the well off have a lot more opportunities to legally avoid tax.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#256

Post by eru » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 8:43 PM UTC

tsotha wrote: post #249

eru wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it nice that some countries try to transcend the accidents of birth within or beyond an imaginary line?

Sure, it's nice that the Germans are doing it. I don't want my country doing it, though.

But you want your country doing it for your countrymen? If yes, why do you care about helping some people who were born inside some invisible line more than others? (If not, that's at least not nationalistic..)

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#257

Post by eru » Sat, Apr 04, 2015, 8:44 PM UTC

ownagefool wrote: post #255

eru wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you avoid the taxes, though? And why would you put up with only 2 weeks holiday anywhere in Europe? I'm not sure that's even legal.

You can opt out of the work hours regulations, but even if you don't as a contractor you will be running your own Ltd, so unless you're liable to sue yourself, you'll be fine with 2 weeks holiday which is comparable to the US. Of course you can take more, but as a contractor you get paid per day, so it'll affect your earnings. Avoiding tax once you're not PAYE is pretty easy, there are loads of loopholes but the gove…

Interesting. I guess that's why they need a nominally much higher tax take than eg Singapore, where everyone pays.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#258

Post by tempodox » Thu, Apr 09, 2015, 11:12 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #239

tempodox wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling someone xenophobic because they would be unwilling to give away for free what is worth money everywhere else to people who didn't contribute to what they're taking, comes across as quite self-serving.

But they ARE willing to do just that. Go figure!

I can't speak for “them”, only for myself. And I for one disagree.