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“Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

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Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#251

Post by reedlaw »

qq66 wrote: post #249
JohnBooty wrote: post #160

I would literally switch jobs (and perhaps careers, if every company was like this) if forced to work in an open office like this. I cannot work that way; I can't focus. I realize that I'm adding nothing constructive to this thread; I don't care. Maybe some manager somewhere will see this and a hundred other anecdotal opinions and think twice about open offices. I am the opposite of a prima donna. I just want to work…

As a counterpoint, I recently moved from an open-plan office to a private office at Microsoft, and I definitely prefer the open plan. I feel more energized in an open plan, and I now make it a point to walk around the halls and drop in on people who are open to it (green status light on the door).

Sounds like a win-win to me. You can drop in on people who welcome interruptions and others can get their work done.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#252

Post by JohnBooty »

abalone wrote: post #240
choppaface wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in an exclusively open format office and it can be hard at times. Ideally you can find 2-3 spots to work: your desk near your team, a reliably (tho perhaps non-reservable) quiet spot for focusing, and an (perhaps unreliable) quiet spot for super privacy (e.g. a conference room ). The most damaging part of the open format (for me) is that extroverted ops folk would fight fires all day and make tons of nois…

I like your 3-spot system, but JohnBooty is actually describing a 3-spot system too. He's just saying he wants to spend the majority of his time in the "quiet focus" spot rather than the "team collaboration" spot. That's really the issue here: what should your default zone be? I like your suggestion that the default location for your desk should be in the collaborative spot. Cornell studied this a few years back and…

I should have and could have been clearer: I'm actually okay with defaulting to collaborative space. Collaborating with other coders is valuable (and incidentally: fun!) for the reasons you said.

There are so many workplaces that don't even have the option of reliably obtaining distraction-free workspace, though, and that's insanely harmful.

  > So, I don't know if FB's new office has 
  > quiet spots (they should)
A lot of offices seem to have lounge-style quiet spots: nooks with comfortable chairs or some such. These are great for some things, not great for others. I've worked at a few companies where grabbing a quiet place to work meant parking yourself in an empty conference room and bracing yourself for the inevitable interruption of some other group of people walking in and using the conference room for its intended purpose.

  > It's a lot harder to pull ourselves out of our 
  > focus zones into collaboration mode than it is 
  > the other way.
Yes, absolutely yes. Engineers often go off the rails when left entirely to their own devices. Often, they're not even maximizing their personal productivity - they may "go dark", spend time building the wrong thing, or needlessly spin their wheels and waste time solving something that another engineer could have helped them with very quickly.

However, I also think those things are also fairly trivially solved by adopting a software development method that fosters collaboration. Scrum is popular for a reason and feels like it's almost always a good start. On top of that team leaders can also block out time for code reviews, show-and-tells, pair programming, etc.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#253

Post by bbarn »

staticfish wrote: post #248
bbarn wrote: post #239

My least and most favorite topic rears it's head again. The open floor plan. Here's what I've come to think is about perfect: The open floor plan, with +-3 hour start/end time to your 8 hour work day (from say, 8:30-5), with optional hour lunch (paid or unpaid depending on policy/culture). Think about it.. there are definitely collaboration benefits to be had with the open floorplan. The contrast to that is always th…

Why should people that would like some quiet time (which is needed for all of us) have to come in at non-standard hours. That sucks. I think the bigger issue is how we've all been duped into how the open-plan offices "work" from MBA dicks.

The "MBA dicks" didn't start this, we did, like it or not. All the agile, write stuff on sticky-notes, stand up meetings did this, not managers looking to cut costs. They may have benefited, embraced an idea, and exploited it, for sure, but this didn't come from higher up.

The problem is, they do work - for a lot of people. Things are getting done, at the biggest companies (case in point, the original article). People can complain and I'm right there with you - I love my quiet, but you have to adapt, and an engineer that can't adapt isn't much of an engineer, in my opinion. There's an army of people who can adapt working at these "god forsaken hideous open offices" which must then be "gender discriminating experienced engineers" when they can't work like it's 1990 anymore.

This is the new reality. We don't have to write COBOL or VB or Pascal anymore, we don't have to wear suits, and most of us are paid really well, taken very seriously as a profession and in high demand.

That comes with a little bit of give for all that take.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#254

Post by JohnBooty »

correctbattery wrote: post #241
JohnBooty wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having some sort of dedicated home office space is soooooo key. Otherwise there's almost no boundary at all between work life and home life. It becomes hard to mentally get into "work mode" when the work day starts and it's hard to fully out of "work mode" when the work day is over. Over the years I've found that the vast majority of work-from-homers share this opinion. Almost unanimously.

You are seriously underestimating hoe awesome it is to code in bed under blankets on a cold winter day with a cup of hot chocolate beside you.

That would kill my back! But heck yeah to everything else, and add some pets curled up at my feet.

I got so much extra work done this winter when it snowed and I worked from home.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#255

Post by kamaal »

I currently work with people across the world, Indians, Chinese, French and people from various other nationalities. This open office thing makes it just worst. The most annoying thing I have come to face until now is the part where people from the same country start aggregating in groups over the floor talking in their own native languages. Constant chatter over simplest and silliest of the issues, previous night's dinner, pranks they played with their room mates and what not.

Over a period of I've noticed the best way to handle has been to just tune out. I mean just be completely irresponsive to anything happening around you. Unfortunately I've been told many times by my manager that certain cultures can consider as being rude.

Its almost like the office is now a community center for people to just gather around and chat.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#256

Post by chmullig »

JohnBooty wrote: post #205
thrownaway2424 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have heard the exact same sentiment from numerous Bookfaces in the months leading up to this move.

I wonder: are any of them excited about the move? Is anybody actually like, "Hell yeah... open offices!"

Everyone at FB is already in open offices. It's just on the scale of a floor of a normal building, instead of a gigantic building.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#257

Post by JohnBooty »

drewg123 wrote: post #246
JohnBooty wrote: post #160

I would literally switch jobs (and perhaps careers, if every company was like this) if forced to work in an open office like this. I cannot work that way; I can't focus. I realize that I'm adding nothing constructive to this thread; I don't care. Maybe some manager somewhere will see this and a hundred other anecdotal opinions and think twice about open offices. I am the opposite of a prima donna. I just want to work…

I work as a fairly senior SWE at Google, coming off 20+ years with private offices (some of that time full-time remote), and I agree with everything you said. I knew it would be hard going into the job. I actually get up at 5am so I can have a few quiet hours at my desk before the rest of the folks show up & it turns into a total zoo.

I know, right? Early mornings (assuming one went to bed early enough and got enough sleep) are great and as I get older I'm more of a morning person anyway... my main challenge there is coordinating with my partner since our sleep schedules obviously are intertwined.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#258

Post by schrodinger »

JohnBooty wrote: post #206
logicallee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why don't you take a nice walk to clear your mind. Might I suggest our 9-acre roof which is a park?"

"I had a bunch of code to plow through, but unfortunately the conference rooms were full and it was raining so I couldn't code in the park"

It doesn't rain in California.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#259

Post by chmullig »

gboudrias wrote: post #121
dismal2 wrote: post #100

Not being snide, but I REALLY do want to see a picture of a work desk (imagine it would be one of those standing/sitting electronic ones) and a chair and a computer! Or is that confidential info?

Yeah this is a bit silly... "Yes Facebook, what I really wanted to see was a helicopter view of the building."

FWIW normally Facebookers aren't permitted to take/post photos of work areas. You're generally encouraged to keep visitors away from them as well.

Re: “Today we moved into our new Facebook building”

#260

Post by chmullig »

serve_yay wrote: post #52
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the same way people do it at companies that occupy several separate buildings in a complex. You walk.

I'm asking how you know where to walk to. Sheesh.

Facebook has Wayfinders that provide an interactive touch screen map all over campus. Type in a name and it shows you where they are, relative to where you are. Super handy.
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