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U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#251

Post by TeMPOraL »

crusso wrote: post #200
orbifold wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of defeatism is not helpful. Through history people were able to eventually overthrow much more brutal oppressors. The kind coercion used in western societies might appear to be more effective, but there is no reason to think that direct political action could not work. When it happens, like in the case of the occupy movement, you can see by the media reaction, how uncomfortable it is for the powerful. Your…

Name one thing accomplished by the occupy movement. If anything, they were a distraction from the worst culprits of the unholy corporate-government alliance.

Well, they made a nice few-second appearance in Google's Zeitgeist 2011 video, and also spawned some fun memes (#OccupyJupiter comes to my mind). That must be worth something.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#252

Post by forthefuture »

scott_karana wrote: post #236
forthefuture wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, if the entire world was recorded every second of every day it would literally be impossible to be falsely accused of a crime. This is why many states are passing laws for cops to have cameras on their glasses: it's impossible to lie if there's an uninterrupted live stream of the truth.

> Funnily enough, if the entire world was recorded every second of every day it would literally be impossible to be falsely accused of a crime That's only true if everybody has equitable access to the recordings ! Putting the keys to the castle in the hands of the people running it leads to doom.

>Putting the keys to the castle in the hands of the people running it leads to doom.

I just think about the future much more positively. You have to believe in justice for it to ever be real.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#253

Post by woodman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #249
orbifold wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of defeatism is not helpful. Through history people were able to eventually overthrow much more brutal oppressors. The kind coercion used in western societies might appear to be more effective, but there is no reason to think that direct political action could not work. When it happens, like in the case of the occupy movement, you can see by the media reaction, how uncomfortable it is for the powerful. Your…

I personally question the goal of fighting it. More and more I begin to believe that it's "privacy vs. progress of mankind - choose one". Privacy for privacy's sake is not something I think is important - the problem is always with the ways lack of it could be abused. I can't see how we can save privacy without getting rid of computers - after all, even if you reduce number of sensors, the remaining void can be fille…

It isn't really an issue of privacy, it is an issue of consolidated power through a monopoly on certain types of information.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#254

Post by woodman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #250
woodman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way to reverse this. Trying to cage this with paperwork will just lead to more of the same creative interpretations à la NSA. So the rulers don't feel the rules apply to them, big surprise. With that in mind, the futility of fighting the tide, what is the next step? As the ideal solution of reversal is unavailable, we need to go with harm reduction - but what is the harm that we would reduce? Most would s…

> It is no mystery why the Constitution included the provision allowing citizens to arm themselves with the same class of weapons that the government possessed. It's worth noting that no longer do citizens have the ability to arm themselves with "the same class of weapons" as the government. Unless you're willing to sell APCs and cruise missiles to private parties, there's no way a rebellion can outgun country's mili…

I don't think it is worth noting, I doubt it would be productive to go into John Birch Society / Oath Keeper territory :)

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#255

Post by Lawtonfogle »

JonCox wrote: post #196
josephlord wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make a difference until someone trawls the databases and can reconstruct much of your life. Also even if it doesn't matter to you don't you want journalists and lawyers free from communication (and who they contact) surveilance? I'm actually fine with a CCTV operator in a monitoring station viewing the feeds. I'm also OK with the recordings being kept a short time in case they are needed to investigate som…

I guess it really comes down to who can 'reconstruct' my life. If it's the police or security services I believe that's absolutely fine, whoever you are (journalists, lawyers etc. included) The UK government don't misuse surveillance for political reasons, if they did there would be uproar. We're not slipping into an authoritarian state, that would be completely at odds with British culture and where we're really hea…

It is sure great that the UK never has and never will have a child molestation scandal involving individuals in power, some of whom may try to silence, cover up, or postpone the issue by abusing their power.

There are plenty of people who hold positions of government power that have done far worse than abuse surveillance for their own ends.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#256

Post by woodman »

orbifold wrote: post #248
woodman wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... libertarian overlords ... Ok, go ahead and square that with the operation of the government today. I'm pretty confident you will find it impossible to construct a convincing argument.

That was a stupid choice of words... What I meant to say was neo-liberal, I guess. Since the whole comment is mostly hyperbole anyways, I will let it stand as is.

Well thanks for not doubling down. FYI, "Ayn Rand" and "neo-liberal" doesn't really belong in the same breath either - I'm guessing you've never actually read anything she has written. This might be a moment where you consider the body of knowledge that your opinions rest on, and the phrase "garbage in, garbage out".

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#257

Post by Torgo »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #18

I've been mulling ideas to defeat ANPR without breaking state laws. The simplest may be to use a tilted/warped surrounding frame that interferes with the skew correction of the captured plate. Another thought is to project bright infrared patterns to disrupt unfiltered B&W cameras.

As far as I know, in every state there are laws preventing you from either covering your license plate with something, or from using any sort of active defense mechanism. I have seen people experiment with reflective letters all around their license plate that are then detected by ANPR, resulting in it unable to determine what the real plate numbers are. This would seem to be legal. I suspect you could even make them reflective to IR while being invisible to the naked eye so your car wouldn't look like crap.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#258

Post by freehunter »

stainednapkin wrote: post #214
freehunter wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are wrong. As citizens we can grant and revoke government powers at will. Theoretically. First you would need someone with these beliefs to run for office. You would need them to win office, in a position where they have the power to change the laws. Then you would need them to resist the temptation to listen to lobbyists trying to change their mind. Then you would need a vote to pass. Then you would need the go…

Nope. These are rights granted by the Constitution. The difficulty would be in getting people to care.

You're not wrong. The problem, though, is that I'm still right. Yes, theoretically we can change things. The way this happens is through our elected officials, not via us directly. If our elected officials are unwilling to change, there's not much we can do to force it. Literally the only way the Constitution allows for us to change things is if we vote someone into office who will change it, and then it still hinges on them actually changing things, which historically hasn't happened.

You can repeat the Constitution until you're blue in the face, but just because something sounds easy on paper doesn't mean it's easy or even plausible in reality.

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#259

Post by stainednapkin »

freehunter wrote: post #258
stainednapkin wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. These are rights granted by the Constitution. The difficulty would be in getting people to care.

You're not wrong. The problem, though, is that I'm still right. Yes, theoretically we can change things. The way this happens is through our elected officials, not via us directly. If our elected officials are unwilling to change, there's not much we can do to force it. Literally the only way the Constitution allows for us to change things is if we vote someone into office who will change it, and then it still hinges…

Perhaps you're unwilling or unable to conceive of how change can be accomplished but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

Are you having some kind of personal contest to see how many times you can say "theoretically"?

Did I say it would be easy? Or are you just going to make things up and ascribe them to me.

What's your point, anyways? To convince everyone that we should just give up and accept the state of things?

Re: U.S. Spies on Millions of Cars

#260

Post by stillsut »

Who would EVER approve this?

Didn't the majority of the country agree this summer that police should wear cameras at all times. And the police protested this development. (Remember police brutality debate?)

I'm against the license plate system, but people on this site often don't seem to appreciate there is democratic support for many of these programs.

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