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Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

keurighack.com

251–260 of 303 posts

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#251

Did the same thing a few years ago with a Tassimo.

Same here. We accidentally bought a case of discs that's only compatible with commercial machines. We noticed that the barcodes differed for the same kind of coffee in the home machine, so we just cut the barcodes from the old coffee, reinforce with some scotch tape, and temporarily attach it to each new disc we put into the machine.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#252
Approaching this from the perspective of someone who drinks perhaps 250 mL of coffee per year, I am utterly mystified that the commodity coffee beverage product can still support so many niche businesses.

In this very discussion, I have seen people describe the way they make their own coffee, and it is almost identical to the way U.S.A.-C.S.A. civil war soldiers made theirs in camp. And I have seen people describe their heavily-modded robotic coffee makers, using consumables pre-processed in bulk by industrial-scale machinery to provide a more consistent product.

And this makes me think that Keurig is not just pissing into the wind, but directing their little stream against a waterfall. The coffee market is huge, and more ancient by far than most other product markets. It is also thoroughly commoditized. There is simply no way for any company to enjoy pricing power in it without an improbably vast cartel or some strictly policed patents and trademarks.

Why should the collective society of coffee-drinkers indulge Keurig's attempt to achieve economic profits (positive returns when considering opportunity cost) by allowing them to differentiate their sub-market to the point where they enjoy pricing power in it? Is their coffee that much better than all available alternatives? I have similar questions about Starbucks. How do they manage to charge more than the basic commodity price?

It almost seems as though the coffee itself is not the whole product, but it also includes the ritual and ceremony of preparing it. It also looks quite a bit like the market for wines and beers, where the price that the market will bear is determined mostly by the printing on the label.

Given those assumptions, my analysis is that Keurig is approaching their problem from the worst possible angle. Inserting technical countermeasures into the hardware will never work (as repeatedly demonstrated by pwn-your-own-device hackers). They should instead pour that cash into advertising and reward-based psychology. Institute some form of intermittent reward system for using genuine, trademark-branded consumables.

You cannot ever employ enough clever engineers to defeat the legion of people with physical possession of the item and a desire to make it do what its owner desires, instead of obeying its pre-programmed manufacturer directives. Annoying your customers simply does not add value to your product.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#253

They are officially labeling us as "attackers" on seclists now: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Dec/37

"Since no fix is currently available, owners of Keurig 2.0 systems may wish to take additional steps to secure the device, such as keeping the device in a locked cabinet, or using a cable lock to prevent the device from being plugged in when not being used by an authorized user."

Love it

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#254

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

I think it's important to at least acknowledge the desire a "razor/razorblades" device manufacturer has for maintaining the quality of their brand by controlling to some extent the user experiences that are possible with their tool. To me, this seems similar to Sony and Nintendo wanting the right to certify titles that run on their consoles. You can argue about whether removing freedom from the user is worth the trade for a reliable user experience, and you can argue about the right place to draw the quality line, but they're trying to guarantee a certain minimum level of user experience by doing this.

If Keurig coffee was somehow astoundingly good out of their machine, with their pods, would we have less of a problem with what they are doing?

What Keurig is doing also doesn't prevent another manufacturer from competing with an unencumbered alternative. Shouldn't we expect such a system to compete in the marketplace on its merits?

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#255

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

I suppose it's making Keurig's lives better. Infinite possibilities through the means of technology includes digitally protected coffee.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#256

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

A big ah hah moment for me was realizing that money is a representation of inefficiency. So for example, if everyone had a means of growing their own food, generating their own electricity, taking care of their own health, and had unlimited access to information, we wouldn't need to buy things or pay for services. A Mr. Fusion and a replicator would be all we needed.

That’s probably the real reason they don’t use money on Star Trek. Not so much because they eliminated scarcity (which they obviously did, with numerous planets to choose from) but because giving everyone the basic means to sustain themselves was such a small fraction of the economy that it became dehumanizing to force people to work so much when society could provide for all within the percentage of a rounding error.

This concept’s relevance for coffee makers: what’s a coffee maker without coffee? Anyone can brew coffee by pouring hot water through a sock (as it’s done in much of the developing world) and I can say from experience that it’s both more convenient and can even make a better cup. So the key is the coffee, not the machine. It’s not really surprising that Keurig wants to cement itself as a middleman, and since coffee is everywhere, it was probably inevitable that they’d turn to a DRM solution.

Hydroponics, fabless photovoltaics and big data medicine are going to be what take us into the future, not some kitchen gismo. In fact, the more I witness “progress” in my lifetime, the more I see that the really revolutionary stuff like the internet is generally free and shared by all. Otherwise it just makes some guy rich. I want to be rich too, but I’ve spent half my life chasing a goal that wouldn’t even be necessary if I was off the grid and could just get left the heck alone.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#257
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how someone can sell a Keurig machine. That's not espresso and the coffee is a poor value. Seriously folks, is it that hard to make your own coffee that's better than these things?

The convenience is hard to beat. I recently switched from a drip coffee maker to a Keurig, and I love it. My wife and I don't drink much coffee and so making 12 cups is a huge waste, we end up throwing away 3/4 of the pot. I also leave for work fairly early (and I don't have a lot of time to spend making coffee in the morning) and so being able to put a pod in the Keurig and get decent coffee out of it a minute or tw…

I can understand the multiple cup problem, it sucks to throw out coffee. For anyone else in your situation, check out an Aeropress [0]. It can make a single cup, it's easy, and I have to boil the water to make tea for my wife anyway :) Less waste than a Keurig, and cheaper TCO.

[0] http://aerobie.com/products/aeropress.htm

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#258
post #182
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid $11 for my drip coffee maker, in the local branch of a national chain grocery. I've had it for two years. It makes one to twelve cups of any kind of coffee you care to put in there, from $5 store brand to dont-even-ask café whose beans were grown on a free-trade farm in Guatemala under the supervision of the executive committee of Juan Valdez' estate's charitable trust and staffed by former independent coffee…

Yeah, well, it doesn't compare at all. You're talking about a filter coffee machine whereas Keurig sells an espresso machine. Your filter doesn't put out the same coffee as an espresso machine; there's pressure involved, temperature, etc.. Your coffee will be "longer" (more water) and contain way more caffeine. You also won't ever be able to produce the foam and taste of an espresso with a filter machine. I'm not say…

You're calling coffee from a Keurig an espresso machine? My $1200 Jura begs to differ

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#259
post #238
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a coffee drinker, but the packaging waste is what amazes me about the system. At the end of the day, the trash can at work is half-full of used k-cups. AFAIK, only the foil lid can be recycled.

I love the Keurig. It is very convenient but I agree the waste is a bit much. I paid $10 for reusable K Cups and they work great (just don't overfill)[1]. Keurig even sells their own reusable cups.[2] [1] http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Save-Refillable-Single-cup-Brewer... [2] http://www.amazon.com/Keurig-K-Cup-Reusable-Coffee-Filter/dp...

These are easy to accidentally throw out at the office, unfortunately. Mine lasted about 2 weeks before I forgot to remove it from the machine and it went out with all of the other K-cups that everyone else was throwing out.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#260
I think this whole "hack the Keurig 2.0 DRM" has created more press for their coffee maker than they would have otherwise had.

I expect them to sell more because of it.

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