BPG Image format • Hacker News Board

Re: BPG Image format

#251

Post by j2kun » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:09 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #200

j2kun wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're implying that because the women you picked didn't speak up and just did their work, that somehow that is the model all women should follow (because Science, apparently). Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. Just because they did not speak up does not imply there were no negative effects of contemporary attitudes toward women. On the other hand, I have evidence that…

Yet you provide no evidence that they were not affected by attitudes toward women. The New York Times Magazine article is pretty long, it'll take you a few minutes to read it. I'll wait. Short version: they suffered real discrimination, which you've diminished by comparing it to the use of Lenna.jpg in a graphics project.

Fine, I didn't read it. What is your point? That just because something is worse for one person that we should ignore problems affecting another? That someone else has suffered in the past is not a reason to give up improving the status quo today.

Re: BPG Image format

#252

Post by thought_alarm » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:10 AM UTC

than wrote: post #9

Pronounced 'bee-peg'?

I've always pronounced it "bee-pedge".

Re: BPG Image format

#253

Post by j2kun » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:13 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #238

j2kun wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something is a tradition does not make it a good tradition, nor does it justify continuing the tradition.

True, but you still need to balance the relative merits of continuing versus discontinuing the tradition. There is a very real loss from discontinuing the tradition in question without first augmenting references for many of the algorithms that use Lena with other standard reference images. That's a real and immediate loss. Try a different strategy: offer a better alternative that makes it so practitioners not only d…

Real comparisons of algorithms do not operate on a single image, but large suites of images, where the results are computed as averages. Changing the dataset by removing one image is unlikely to be a "very real loss."

Alternatives exist, and AFAIK Lena is just used as a "canonical" example to use as a nice picture (like the Zachary Karate Club network).

Re: BPG Image format

#254

Post by galago » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:21 AM UTC

asah wrote: post #233

holy crap, check this out: http://img1.buyersbestfriend.com/mkg/snackspage/images/bpg.h... 186,967 ==> 29,872 and indistinguishable, 6.25:1 (and pls tell me if it breaks on your browser - I want to push this live!!!) adam

The bpg image on your link has much lower contrast. I'm not sure if that can be fixed, but the images are substantially different. I wonder if jacking up the contrast on the bpg might make it look much worse.

Re: BPG Image format

#255

Post by Intermernet » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #81

ChrisGranger wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much that figure would drop if one could optimize the process for modern CPUs...

Even without optimizations. That page is from 1997. They probably ran this on a 200MHz machine at best. Modern CPUs are 30-50x faster just in terms of instructions per second. Then once you factor in multiple cores, we have desktop machines that are easily 100x faster. In terms of optimizations we have SIMD and GPGPUs to make it even faster. Not unrealistic to think we could bring that 6 minute figure down to one sec…

In the same magazine there is an ad for a $3795 Gateway 2000 workstation. 486DX2 66MHz, 8MB RAM, 500MB SCSI HDD, SVGA graphics with 1MB RAM, 14" CRT.

I remember looking at systems like that and drooling. Now the latest CPUs have 8MB L3 cache.

Re: BPG Image format

#256

Post by ianlevesque » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:25 AM UTC

rasz_pl wrote: post #230

hltbra wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or his formula (Bellard's Formula) used for his pi calculation record.

and software radio stuff (sadly closed source and proprietary)

A man has to eat.

Re: BPG Image format

#257

Post by buymorechuck » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 4:53 AM UTC

mronge wrote: post #224

TD-Linux wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some devices do have hardware JPEG decoding, however all mobile browsers do software JPEG decoding, often with the SIMD-accelerated libjpeg-turbo. This is the software video decoder, by the way: https://github.com/brion/ogv.js

How come all mobile browser uses software JPEG decoding? Is it because of the startup latency of the hardware decoder?

Security. Malicious JPEG encodings could break hardware codec implementations.

Re: BPG Image format

#258

Post by jlebar » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 5:06 AM UTC

josephagoss wrote: post #227

mronge wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come all mobile browser uses software JPEG decoding? Is it because of the startup latency of the hardware decoder?

My guess is that the average mobile CPU speed makes decoding a minor time factor within the process of getting an image from server to the clients screen. If this is the case, then putting in a hardware decoder would be a needless expense.

I used to own the jpeg decoder at Mozilla, and this was certainly the case last time I looked at it. Even without SIMD, JPEG decoding is pretty cheap compared to most of the things the browser does. I certainly wasn't clamoring for someone to burn JPEG into silicon; I had other things keeping me up at night.

Re: BPG Image format

#259

Post by woah » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 5:23 AM UTC

akshatpradhan wrote: post #250

pslam wrote: post #148

The big story here is this introduces a new image file format without requiring you to upgrade a browser or download a plugin . Those aren't PNGs of representative images you're looking at - that's BPG decoding happening in your browser. So we don't like HVEC due to patent worries? Fine, we can swap in another format and use the same technique. We don't have an I-frame format for Daala that's finalized yet? Fine, we…

If you want Designers to start using this, then we need a photoshop plugin, an illustrator plugin, a Sketch plugin, a pixelmator plugin. Make it easier for us to export images as a .BGP. If the images are truly smaller without affecting the current user experience of users using mostly modern web browsers, then we're more likely to pick up on using this.

This can all be handled by Gulp or Grunt and designers won't have to worry about it if someone on the team can code.

Re: BPG Image format

#260

Post by akshatpradhan » Sat, Dec 06, 2014, 5:34 AM UTC

woah wrote: post #259

akshatpradhan wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want Designers to start using this, then we need a photoshop plugin, an illustrator plugin, a Sketch plugin, a pixelmator plugin. Make it easier for us to export images as a .BGP. If the images are truly smaller without affecting the current user experience of users using mostly modern web browsers, then we're more likely to pick up on using this.

This can all be handled by Gulp or Grunt and designers won't have to worry about it if someone on the team can code.

What if I use this: http://getbootstrap.com/examples/starter-template/ and add an img tag with a src to a .bgp? Will it render when I refresh the browser? I see that the BPG images are decoded in your browser with a small Javascript decoder. So a JS file is referenced in the HTML, and everything will run ok when I refresh? That's the promise?