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Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

roslyn.codeplex.com

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Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#251

Post by ChuckMcM »

This is great. There is a really interesting lesson/insight here. Programmers are expensive.

There are a number of things people are doing, based on Linux, which are basically using Linux as an OS and then layering on some custom drivers or such into a product. Whether its a web 2.0 company using it as the server OS or an embedded signage company. All of these were "impossible" when you had to have your own OS team to support them, and Microsoft benefited from that. Now the OS "maintains itself" (such as it is) and so businesses get everything they got from employing Microsoft tools but at a much lower effective cost. They don't need to pay big license fees, they don't need to hire programmers to maintain a lot of code that isn't central to their product, and they don't have to spend a lot of money/time training people on their own infrastructure. That is a pretty big change.

Its nice to see folks realize it isn't the software that is valuable, its the expertise to use it that has value. By open sourcing the C# compiler Microsoft greatly increases the number of people who will develop expertise in using it and that will most likely result in an increase of use.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#252

Post by mg74 »

kyllo wrote: post #100
nodivbyzero wrote: post #90

Microsoft uses Git. Is it not cool? Microsoft, please add unix terminal instead of start button in Windows 8.

Just use Powershell, or install Cygwin. What good is a unix terminal without a unix filesystem, anyway?

Its not the filesystem thats the problem, but the terrible partitioned-backslash-ridden namespace. Come on MS, embrace the forward slash already.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#253

Post by emn13 »

shmerl wrote: post #197
McGlockenshire wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The releases are under Apache License 2, which has both a patent grant and a patent retaliation clause.

That's good. But that's just the compiler. What about APIs (i.e. .NET)? I don't think Oracle claimed ownership over Java compilers in the example above. It was primarily about Java APIs.

One version of the core libraries (micro framework) are OSS too, along with a bunch of other stuff, but by no means everything or even everything in the base class library.

See slide: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkT9oBcCQAAHIAV.jpg:large

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#254

Post by rybosome »

keypusher wrote: post #229
tormeh wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'd like to see Visual Studio for Linux with support for Java, Scala, Clojure, Haskell and other non-Microsoft technologies. That's my wishlist in this bright new era of Microsoft openness. I don't like Microsoft but Visual Studio is the only IDE I've ever tried that is substantially better than gedit/jedit. The auto-completion (intellisense) is just delightful to use.

Is Visual Studio auto-complete significantly different from IntelliJ or Eclipse? There are many great editors an the continium between gedit and Visual Studio, such as Sublime, hell even vim and emacs have autocomplete plugins.

I can't speak for IntelliJ (can never get the damn thing configured correctly), but Eclipse's autocomplete leaves a lot to be desired. This may be configurable, but my experience has been that it's finicky about when it will trigger.

I appreciate Eclipse's openness (and I tend to work with open source languages), but I must admit that purely examining the quality of the tool, Visual Studio is leagues ahead.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#255

Post by rottyguy »

tormeh wrote: post #221
JohnBooty wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having followed a fair number of MS bloggers/podcasts currently in and around their web tools (ASP.NET, MVC, etc) teams... I honestly believe they understand the value of open source. Visual Studio and their MVC framework continue to impress me (I mostly work in Ruby today, but have to maintain some .NET stuff) and MS takes inspiration from successful open-source tools and frameworks where needed. Many of their recen…

Well, I'd like to see Visual Studio for Linux with support for Java, Scala, Clojure, Haskell and other non-Microsoft technologies. That's my wishlist in this bright new era of Microsoft openness. I don't like Microsoft but Visual Studio is the only IDE I've ever tried that is substantially better than gedit/jedit. The auto-completion (intellisense) is just delightful to use.

I'd rather see C# across the board and write once run anywhere (eg release a linux distro with .net support built in).

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#256

Post by tormeh »

keypusher wrote: post #229
tormeh wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'd like to see Visual Studio for Linux with support for Java, Scala, Clojure, Haskell and other non-Microsoft technologies. That's my wishlist in this bright new era of Microsoft openness. I don't like Microsoft but Visual Studio is the only IDE I've ever tried that is substantially better than gedit/jedit. The auto-completion (intellisense) is just delightful to use.

Is Visual Studio auto-complete significantly different from IntelliJ or Eclipse? There are many great editors an the continium between gedit and Visual Studio, such as Sublime, hell even vim and emacs have autocomplete plugins.

It's fuzzy and instant. If you type "flow" it will treat it as if you searched for "stream". You don't need to know what things are named. You just search for what you think it may be and 9 times out of 10 intellisense will find what you're looking for. It's like having Google doing autocomplete for you.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#257

Post by runjake »

leoc wrote: post #143
keithwarren wrote: post #6

They also announced as part of this that they are putting a large swatch of their .NET Source code under Apache 2 and accepting pull requests. Folks, this is a very big deal for Microsoft. Who would have imagined this 10 years ago? Here is an image that shows what they are putting into the community https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkT9oBcCQAAHIAV.jpg:large

Well, here we are then. This now officially the standard play for formerly-dominating computer-platform firms who have fallen on hard times: having before been proudly hard-nosed and proprietary, publicly see the light and present a new image as a new, kinder, gentler company which totally gets it about openness. Former famous examples: IBM under Lou Gerstner (we love Linux and open platforms!), Apple after the NeXT…

My impression is that this is a result of the changing of the guard (Ballmer's exit). The underlying people (scottgu, etc) have been pushing for open source for many, many years now. And Satya seems to trust these people and thus announcements like today.

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#258

Post by xcrunner529 »

scholia wrote: post #222
MagerValp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's particularly fair to lump Apple with the rest since 14 years later [1] the core OS is still open source [2], and they're actively working on several high profile open source projects (e.g. Webkit, CUPS, and clang). They're not exactly irrelevant either. [1] http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2000/04/05Apple-Releases-Dar... [2] http://opensource.apple.com/

Apple took advantage of things that were already open source. How many innovative, profitable programs has it developed itself and then made open source? The fact that the core OS is still open source doesn't actually mean much when there's a huge layer of proprietary code on top, does it?

Like Android these days...

Re: Microsoft Open Sources C# Compiler

#260

Post by cmarschner »

rybosome wrote: post #254
keypusher wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Visual Studio auto-complete significantly different from IntelliJ or Eclipse? There are many great editors an the continium between gedit and Visual Studio, such as Sublime, hell even vim and emacs have autocomplete plugins.

I can't speak for IntelliJ (can never get the damn thing configured correctly), but Eclipse's autocomplete leaves a lot to be desired. This may be configurable, but my experience has been that it's finicky about when it will trigger. I appreciate Eclipse's openness (and I tend to work with open source languages), but I must admit that purely examining the quality of the tool, Visual Studio is leagues ahead.

And Erich Gamma moved to MS three years ago...
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