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Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

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Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#251

Post by wpietri »

vixen99 wrote: post #245
wpietri wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neutral, eh? Good for you. What a bold stance. Are you also neutral on the topic of interracial marriage? Because the saga of gay marriage is basically replaying that story 50 years later: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia Eich isn't in hot water for his personal beliefs. Indeed, as far as I know, he's never stated them. People are holding him accountable for his action, which was trying to keep gay peo…

What is a right? How are rights established? From BE's point of view, was a right a right, prior to being argued and established in law?

Equality before the law is a right. It is established in the constitution. For more, see the Michigan Marriage Amendment decision I've linked in several places in this thread; the judge explains things thoroughly and clearly. Many, myself included, view the legal enumerated rights as an expression of something deeper, but that's not universal.

We don't know what BE's point of view is, because he has refused to explain. But we certainly know what gay people believed, and what gay marriage proponents believed. And we know the effect of BE's actions on gay people which was to help keep them from their civil rights for a little while longer.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#252

Post by transitionality »

it_learnses wrote: post #223
transitionality wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're discriminating against him on the basis of his political stance, trying to start up a witch hunt or mob against him, and trying to disenfranchise him of his employment. They're bigots, pure and simple, and so is everyone who defends them.

stop marginalizing this issue by calling it a "political stance." Hitler's "political stance" was to get rid of jews. Political stances affect real lives. Get your head out of your ass.

Every stance affects someone's life or other, in some way or other. You're trying to get this man fired. That affects his life in a very negative way. You don't seem to care much about it.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#253

Post by pigeons »

true_religion wrote: post #232
protomyth wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very surprised if in an average day you don't buy product or services from a company that has donated or has C-level executives that have donated to some cause that attacks you or your family. I know of at least one company that donates to a group because of the group's work in China that is directly attacking the families of their customers in the US. Before this goes to my personal views: I'm not Califor…

> I would be very surprised if in an average day you don't buy product or services from a company that has donated or has C-level executives that have donated to some cause that attacks you or your family. I'd actually be surprised if this is the case. What possible causes would they donate to that will count as an 'attack'?

political parties

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#254

Post by Rotten194 »

transitionality wrote: post #209
alexqgb wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong again. http://www.americannaziparty.com

That is not the Nazi Party though, is it?

That's a terrible semantic argument. Of course it's not the actual Nazi Party, but if the Mozilla CEO donated $1000 to the ANP people would be pretty angry.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#255

Post by Rotten194 »

m0skit0 wrote: post #160
bronson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And one that steers the direction of the company every single day. Mere employees don't.

Still, what has that to do with personal beliefs? If he's a professional he will know to keep his personal beliefs out of his work. And if his beliefs interfere with his Mozilla's work, then I would agree on boycotting him and Mozilla. Until then, that's a private personal opinion which I absolutely don't care about.

It's fine that he has personal beliefs against gay marriage. As an LGBT person, it bothers me, but whatever, I probably bother him as well. It's mutual.

My problem is he has expressed he's willing to act on those views, by donating to a cause against gay marriage. While of course it's reasonable for him to act on his views if he wants to, that means I personally don't want to support him because I don't want to help him act on those views. Now that he's CEO, how do we know that LGBT people at Mozilla are getting fair treatment? Would he fairly consider a LGBT person for a promotion? What if two LGBT people get married and invite a bunch of their coworkers, or have a small celebration at work during break? Would he be OK with that? We don't know, but taking away from the fact that he's already acted on his anti-gay views, then I would lean towards that he wouldn't, and that bothers me enough that I don't want to support Mozilla.

There's also the fact that he designed Javascript, which is a perfectly valid reason to hate him :p

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#256

Post by Rotten194 »

yeukhon wrote: post #29
autarch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling this a "form of oppression" is a bit silly. How are Brendan Eich's rights being denied here? How is Brendan being prevented from acting on his own beliefs? These two people decided that they don't want to associate with an organization where the CEO is, in their opinion, anti-gay. That's entirely within their rights, isn't it? As others in the thread said, action have consequences. One consequence of being pu…

If you actually read the article: We will continue our boycott until Brendan Eich is completely removed from any day to day activities at Mozilla, which we believe is extremely unlikely after all he’s survived and the continued support he has received from Mozilla. A quick interpretation would be "Mozilla should never pick someone who doesn't like gays." That's against employment equality even though CEO is a unique…

What if the CEO of a major tech corporation was a Neo-Nazi? What if he spent his free time promoting Nazism, supporting the Holocaust, calling Jewish people sub-human, protesting outside of synagogues, etc.? Of course he would be professional and never bring in into work (and of couuursee he would never [openly] discriminate against Jewish employees, right? If a Jewish and gentile employee were both equally qualified he would obvious make a completely fair and non-biased choice for promotion...).

Obviously I'm stretching this some, I'm not claiming that $1000 to Prop 8 === being an open Neo-Nazi. However I'm asking you consider that maybe the political views of employees do matter some, and that this is a gray area where you can't completely claim that "All political activity should be protected" or "Employers should be able to fire anyone for any belief". Maybe you should try and have a little empathy for this person's partner who was essentially prevented from starting a business because he was gay, albeit indirectly, and see why this could make someone a little bitter against people fighting to keep that status quo.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#257

Post by drivingmenuts »

pvnick wrote: post #63

I don't know what it is about gay marriage that draws people in to this ridiculous witch hunt. I'm neutral on the issue because I feel it's complicated like every other polarizing topic, but to a lot of folks it's solid black-and-white, good-vs-evil. But the pro-gay-marriage crowd seems to go beyond that. To them, it's so black-and-white that one's not even allowed to hold the other view. These people don't even ackn…

Going after opponents wallets is the only weapon they have left to get institutions to change their policies.

The owner of Chick-Fil-A is quite a wealthy man. He's not likely to notice twenty or thirty protesters in any way other than simple recognition. But, if you hit back at his wallet, he's more likely to notice. Not because he's a pompous jerk or anything, but because other people within and without the organization will notice.

This witch hunt you speak of cuts both ways. People on the left want to "out" every anti-gay person of any note. People on the far right want to out all the gay people and get biblical on them. Personally, I think we can all live with an outed billionaire or two. I'm pretty sure that a properly biblically punished gay man or woman wouldn't live long enough to see the headline about it.

Finally, there's not much reason for reason when someone is calling for your death or the death of your child or parent simply because they aren't heterosexual.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#258

Post by transitionality »

Rotten194 wrote: post #255
m0skit0 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, what has that to do with personal beliefs? If he's a professional he will know to keep his personal beliefs out of his work. And if his beliefs interfere with his Mozilla's work, then I would agree on boycotting him and Mozilla. Until then, that's a private personal opinion which I absolutely don't care about.

It's fine that he has personal beliefs against gay marriage. As an LGBT person, it bothers me, but whatever, I probably bother him as well. It's mutual. My problem is he has expressed he's willing to act on those views, by donating to a cause against gay marriage. While of course it's reasonable for him to act on his views if he wants to, that means I personally don't want to support him because I don't want to help…

> how do we know that LGBT people at Mozilla are getting fair treatment?

He's explicitly stated that he's committed to fair and equitable treatment of all employees. That's how you know.

https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

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