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Dijkstra on Haskell and Java (2001)

chrisdone.com

251–253 of 253 posts

Re: Dijkstra on Haskell and Java (2001)

#251
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a very common claim from people posting misconceptions that could only arise from second-hand info and a lack of direct experience. Do you think that I, and an apparently large number of other people on the internet, spend our time insulting Haskell without having used it? That some great anti-Haskell conspiracy is being waged by evil groups unknown? I haven't written large enough Haskell programs to have p…

> People who have to keep an empty monad around because removing it doubles the run-time of the program I'm genuinely interested in this. Can you link to an article or blog post explaining the problem? Thanks! :)

It was a PhD student's program, but the problem was verified by more than one knowledgable Haskell programmer. I'll see if I can get them to write it up somewhere!

Re: Dijkstra on Haskell and Java (2001)

#252
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have written quite a bit of Haskell That is a very common claim from people posting misconceptions that could only arise from second-hand info and a lack of direct experience. I have a very hard time believing it given that you claim haskell is large and complex. >Also, I like C++ :) I won't hold that against you. >what you think is wrong with my belief Well, everything you just mentioned except the horrible compi…

> That is a very common claim from people posting misconceptions that could only arise from second-hand info and a lack of direct experience. Do you think that I, and an apparently large number of other people on the internet, spend our time insulting Haskell without having used it? That some great anti-Haskell conspiracy is being waged by evil groups unknown? I haven't written large enough Haskell programs to have p…

>Do you think that I, and an apparently large number of other people on the internet, spend our time insulting Haskell without having used it? That some great anti-Haskell conspiracy is being waged by evil groups unknown?

No, it seems like a relatively small group. And I did not suggest ill intentions, merely ignorance. Do you seriously think "some people repeat second hand info about topics they lack experience with" requires a "great conspiracy waged by evil groups unknown"?

>I haven't written large enough Haskell programs to have performance problems myself

So, you are confirming exactly what I said, that you don't have experience and are repeating second hand info. Why then did you feel the need to invent some sort of conspiracy theory nonsense as a rationale for your behavior?

>People who have to keep an empty monad around because removing it doubles the run-time of the program

That statement demonstrates such an obvious lack of understanding that I am almost able to believe you are ill intentioned. That makes absolutely no sense, it is like me saying "C is bad because I have to keep an empty function around or it doubles run time".

>make substansal changes to get programs into an acceptable (That is too vague to be meaningful. Were they working with >16GB of data? Did they just have a memory leak? Do you understand that memory leaks can be created in every language?

>Also, there are plenty of horrible error messages. Having a random google, here's the first one that comes up

Are you trolling? That is a trivially simple error message. It is a simple type mismatch, the compiler expected X, it got Y. Which is precisely what it says.

>Stackoverflow is full of Haskell questions which are "I don't understand this compile-time error I am getting".

Stackoverflow is full of everylanguage questions of "I don't understand this error I am getting". That is completely meaningless.

Re: Dijkstra on Haskell and Java (2001)

#253
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, all of the software for From NAND to Tetris is written in Java.

It's not that Java is a bad language to write programs in per se (platform agnosticism can be a huge help for educational purposes). It's just a bad language to teach programming.

It is this kind of nitpicking, without justified analysis of the course (where you do not program in Java, but a language specific to the course for building logic gates and working your way up) and without appreciation for the JVM, Java, and its interaction with the right kind of platform that leads me to believe we missed the entire point of this thread in the comments.
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