Letter From A Psychopath • Hacker News Board

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#251

Post by scott_s » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:04 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #158

throwaway83294 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea. I was "friends" with someone for years, who at the time I didn't know was a psychopath (over time I realized they met literally every item on the psychopathy checklist). The manipulativeness, the ability to lie completely sincerely (I bet a lie detector test would show absolutely nothing), and absolute and utter lack of remorse is terrifying, in a way. The most striking thing, in retrospect, is the…

this person is characterized by being completely fearless (as is typical of psychopaths) Everyone is afraid of something. Psychopaths are still people. If you believe someone is fearless, it's a safe assumption they either hide their fear (when they feel it) extremely well, or you simply haven't encountered it yet.

Psychopaths tend to fear negative consequences less than non-psychopaths. They are still people, but having less fear (not being literally fearless) than most is a defining trait.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#252

Post by lemonberry » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

Taek wrote: post #189

selmnoo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding most of these posts to be deeply unsettling. Psychopathy is a mental disorder -- you guys are writing off psychopaths en masse as 'bad people', who cannot contribute to society at all. Consider if the submission piece is genuine: a guy with a mental disorder sought out help to curb any harm he might have otherwise done to others. That's a happy ending isn't it? Be cautious, sure, but let's not just take t…

This whole thread strikes me as having a very strong 'us vs. them' mentality. The guy in his letter makes a plea that 'Psychopaths are just people.' and the general feeling of these comments is to completely throw this away and view psychopaths as a dangerous and scary group of people. Psychopaths look at the world differently than we do, they are highly rational and self motivated, but that doesn't need we need to f…

Highly rational and and self-motivated are not the only distinguishing features of a psychopath. And those are not the features, or the only features, that people are afraid of.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#253

Post by scott_s » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #220

circlefavshape wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that the ME Thomas book read like a work of fiction. The drowning of the possum right at the start - cruelty to animals being one of the stereotypical psychopath behaviours - smelled strongly of a creative writing class to me

Is cruelty to animals part of psychopathy? Or simply a behavior that can develop unchecked due to psychopathy?

I have read the book. The point of that anecdote is that the concept of "cruelty" does not apply to the authors' thinking. We say she was being cruel to the animal, but she does not see it as such.

To her, she had a problem: something was in her swimming pool, and it had to be removed from the pool so she could keep it clean. She tried to remove it, but it kept swimming away. So she drowned it, collected it, and cleaned the pool. The creature's pain never entered into the calculation for her.

The best analogy I can think of are open-world videogames. When you play Grand Theft Auto, are you being "cruel" to civilians? They aren't alive and don't have any feelings, so you may have no problem [1] doing seemingly cruel things to them to see how they react. You're not necessarily cruel, you're just curious how that world works.

Sociopaths see the world in a similar way that you see Grand Theft Auto.

[1] I'm empathetic enough that I feel empathy even for completely non-sentient characters in videogames. So I tend to be a goody-goody even in digital worlds.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#254

Post by scott_s » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

VladimirGolovin wrote: post #234

sliverstorm wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting part is how unlike a typical disorder it is. Your typical disorder removes capability; psychopathy removes empathy, which can be seen as a capability- but it could also be seen as a natural (well-intentioned) limiter.

It's quite possible that this is not a disorder, but a stable evolutionary strategy.

I don't think it is evolutionary stable. I think a society of sociopaths would fall apart. We evolved to live in groups; we are social animals. Social animals need empathy, otherwise they are unlikely to cooperate and live in mutually beneficial ways.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#255

Post by collyw » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:22 PM UTC

Taek wrote: post #189

selmnoo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding most of these posts to be deeply unsettling. Psychopathy is a mental disorder -- you guys are writing off psychopaths en masse as 'bad people', who cannot contribute to society at all. Consider if the submission piece is genuine: a guy with a mental disorder sought out help to curb any harm he might have otherwise done to others. That's a happy ending isn't it? Be cautious, sure, but let's not just take t…

This whole thread strikes me as having a very strong 'us vs. them' mentality. The guy in his letter makes a plea that 'Psychopaths are just people.' and the general feeling of these comments is to completely throw this away and view psychopaths as a dangerous and scary group of people. Psychopaths look at the world differently than we do, they are highly rational and self motivated, but that doesn't need we need to f…

We do need to fear them when they get into positions of power.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#256

Post by southpawgirl » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:30 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #213

tomstokes wrote: post #92

Perhaps the most fascinating part of this letter is observing people's reactions to it. In the letter, the author goes so far as to admit that s/he is and always will be a psychopath without a sense of guilt or remorse toward others and a keen ability to recognize and exploit weaknesses in others for his/her own gain. Judging by the comments here, the letter has done just that. One comment below notes that "Jeez, tha…

he was too incredible of a case for anyone but the highest-ranking therapist to handle I was actually waiting for a reveal of something like, "And I discovered the reason I connected with the top therapist so well was because she was a closet psychopath!"

The detail of the highest-ranking therapist, plus others -the need for validation, the fact that the writer declares to be keen on interpersonal connections, the general air of self-involvement, plus the simple act of dishing personal stuff in public - makes me think more of narcissism than psychopathy.

(IANA psychiatrist, needless to say)

In fact, I suspect that most people who flaunt their psychopathy on the internet are in fact narcissists. The two psychos I've met in my life couldn't have cared less for attention from the public at large or validation of their struggles. I can't really imagine them writing an open letter about their condition, an act that doesn't provide tangible control, or money, nor damages an enemy. On the other hand, narcissists needs validation and attention and writing an open letter is attention-seeking behaviour (which we are involuntarily feeding).

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#257

Post by dereferenced » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

selmnoo wrote: post #178

diminoten wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that our responsibility, to save a man from mental illness? I don't feel it is.

Is it our responsibility to help people who have down syndrome from hurting themselves? Is it our responsibility to help people with physical handicap? Is it our responsibility to help people suffering from depression? I'm offended by the thought and the idea that we should just ignore our ill. What if the person suffering from the mental illness was your brother or sister? Think about if it was you, and no-one reach…

Then you'd ask a medical professional for help, not comments on a website.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#258

Post by mikedmiked » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 10:17 PM UTC

throwaway83294 wrote: post #176

yannk wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, why the throwaway account? Did you think about telling anyone or did you even tell anyone, so that maybe others don't have to go through the same thing you did?

For reasons I won't get into, after he was confronted, he did what I'd describe as "firing a warning shot", but in terms of social power. Basically it was his way of saying "Don't mess with me. I have influence and can destroy your life." Following that, I've been forced to take precautions in terms of carefully bringing friends into this knowledge, among other strategic preparations in case he "attacks" some day wit…

Thanks for all your insight here in this thread. I went through all this myself and haven't really been able to talk about it. Its reassuring to see others have been through the same. My psychopath convinced everyone I had psychosis when I questioned her once. I refused to believe something that I saw her do was a 'hallucination'. For months I was gaslighted by everyone I knew. I would think I was in the clear and then a friend would call me up at work out of the blue, asking if they can take me to accident and emergency. I had 9 months depression and am only now getting out of it.

It is insane how memories can be overwritten. I can write at length on this, I learnt it from videoing her talking to me. They have total frame control and will keep switching subjects away from facts.

I never confronted her to tell her that I knew who she was, but she did warn me indirectly. She showed the 'psychopath face', if that means anything to anyone...

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#259

Post by shanusmagnus » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 10:51 PM UTC

tomstokes wrote: post #92

Perhaps the most fascinating part of this letter is observing people's reactions to it. In the letter, the author goes so far as to admit that s/he is and always will be a psychopath without a sense of guilt or remorse toward others and a keen ability to recognize and exploit weaknesses in others for his/her own gain. Judging by the comments here, the letter has done just that. One comment below notes that "Jeez, tha…

What is most fascinating to me is the fact that posts like the parent will delve into the game theoretic motivations of psychopathy as if the psychopath were some wholly unique flavor of creature operating under behavioral algorithms never before seen, when the truth is that your neurotypical, salt of the Earth Johnny Lunchpail is doing the same thing, except on a different timescale, and with the utility functions ingrained into heuristics like 'empathy' and 'compassion' and the like.

Unless you believe that your motivational orientation is made of some magical pixie dust handed down by the Holy Ghost, you should keep in mind that your instincts, your sense of morality and right and wrong and all those gut feelings are engendered by a truly massive utility computation; your feelings of selflessness as you drop the coins in the bell ringer's jar, your protectiveness toward your children, your lesser protectiveness toward your more distant kinship relations, all of it is equivalently cold-blooded. It's just dispersed enough that you don't see it for what it is.

So when you stop talking to your friend because he's annoying, or you don't give money to that homeless guy because you've already gave enough money, and maybe he's a drunk; and you buy a nice present for your nephew but not your coworker's kid, and you think it's best that your grandmother died because she was suffering so terribly, you're a psycopath, too. There's just a lot of epiphenomenal stuff larded on top of it.

Re: Letter From A Psychopath

#260

Post by kristofferR » Fri, Dec 20, 2013, 11:13 PM UTC

PavlovsCat wrote: post #43

kristofferR wrote: post #31

Everybody should turn on showdead in the settings and check out losethos' comments here. Psychopathy is really interesting and fascinating, but so is schizophrenia. It boggles my mind how anyone can write such nonsensical rambling comments while at the same time coding a 64 bit operating system from scratch.

I find it sad rather than fascinating, wish I could hug the guy. I know this isn't the time or the place, and that I could probably not help anyway. But still, every time I see a post of him with that greyed out font saying "move along, nothing to see here" gets me right in the feels. When some sports star or programmer with family dies from stupid or natural causes or commits suicide, we are upset. When someone is o…

It is (ironically, considering the topic at hand) one of the worst phychopathic tendencies of society. We care the most about the people who need care the least (celebrities), but we dislike the "annoying liabilities" who really needs care.

When people stop providing value and start requiring value instead, their perceived societal value drops dramatically. In a way it's completely logical, but it's also really heartless.