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Valve joins the Linux Foundation

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Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#251

Post by zanny »

aclevernickname wrote: post #206
mcb3k wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're over-estimating how much money it takes to get a relatively good gaming computer. You could probably build an entry-level gaming machine for around 700 to 800 dollars. Add in a keyboard, mouse, and a nice monitor and you'll probably end up closer to 1,000 USD. That's still 200 to 300 dollars cheaper than a Macbook Pro or an iMac, and 100 dollars cheaper than building the equivalent system running Windo…

>That would be equivalent to, say, buying a desktop from Dell (300~500 USD) and an XBox One (500 USD), As a reference, the fastest home consoles now(XBO and PS4) are based on an AMD Jaguar core (AMD's version of the Atom), with 8GB of Ram. You can build a (Faster) AMD A10-based machine with the same specs for less than $400 in Canada.

Hell, you could throw a quad core Athlon and a 7790 in a $400 rig and still smoke the ps4 / xbone.

Something like $40 case + PSU, $40 8gb stick of ram, $50 matx motherboard, $70 cpu, $50 500gb hard drive, and a $100 7790 (or even better, the recent price cut 7870s for $130) and you are still under $400.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#252

Post by aclevernickname »

stinkytaco wrote: post #245
aclevernickname wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. Which means we're left with your Ad Hominem, which you don't see.

> Yes, and if you'd read anywhere else in the thread, You'd find that the Linux Mint issue does not happen because there's a package in the LM16 repositories for steam. Which means that the entire issue of LM not running steam is moot. Which means there is no fragmentation issue in Linux as related to steam. I don't follow this argument. 1. Linux Mint is Linux. People who run it say "I'm running linux." 2. Linux Mint…

> 1. Linux Mint is Linux. People who run it say "I'm running linux." 2. Linux Mint does not run steam. People who run it say "Steam doesn't work on Linux Mint". 3. This means that the linux market is fragmented.

Hmm. perhaps you'd like some reality:

1) Person who says they run it says "steam doesn't work on linux mint" 2) others come out and confirm that it does actually work on Mint. 3) you argue with person that makes original claim, and ignore that it actually does, in fact work. 4) When pointed out that LM does work with Steam, you reply that you don't follow the argument. 5) you then decide to expand on this false premise that something isn't working with a specific flavor of linux by comparing it to Android fragmentation, even though there isn't a case of fragmentation actually happening.

You still are unapologetic for your ad hominem, and decided to double-down on the fragmentation issue to move the goalposts.

To reiterate: Steam works on all reasonably-current flavors of Debian, Ubuntu, Redhat, Arch, Slackware, and even Gentoo.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#253

Post by taspeotis »

int0c wrote: post #241
BrixSprix wrote: post #175

I would love to have a bit more motivation to set up a linux partition. Getting pretty tired of developing on windows...

Once you start developing against the POSIX API you will notice how beautiful it is and how horrendous the Win32 API is in comparison. :)

    Once you start developing against the POSIX API you will notice how beautiful it is and how horrendous the Win32 API is in comparison. :)
Yeah, that POSIX standard for displaying windows on Windows is much more beautiful than Win32.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#254

Post by jebblue »

These guys have so much smarts and common sense, congratulations guys. I'm enjoying Steam on Ubuntu, holding true to my promise to buy games and play them. Even bigger news for me, now I can look forward to purchasing a Steam Machine down the road. Sorry Roku, you've been great but you may have just gotten steam rolled.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#255

Post by ssalenik »

adamors wrote: post #162
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. ...What? That's a complete non sequitur. There are high-end and low-end Macs, just as with anything else, and high-end Macs play games just as well as high-end Windows boxes. And of course you can put OSX on custom hardware, it's just not a popular option. > You sound like an iOS developer. It's not like every Windows PC has…

> high-end Macs play games just as well as high-end Windows boxes Are you joking? Because even $2000 iMacs come with mobile GPUs. Not to mention CPUs that cannot be overclocked etc. That's comparable to a high-end gaming laptop , not a PC.

Dunno, but my MBA ran cs:go way better than my linux box with a dedicated (low end but new) ati card can run cs:source. I'm sure it's a driver issue, but point is that macs current can outperform many linux setups.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#256

Post by shinratdr »

ekianjo wrote: post #248
yapcguy wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers (should) prefer using Linux over OS X. Mac gaming languishes like it always has. Pro video users have jumped shipped (still waiting for the new Mac Pro sometime this month, 18 months after Tim Cook teased folks after WWDC, years after any serious update) What future OS X?!

Actually it seems that some indie developers are already supporting Linux more often than OSX. I have seen on Steam several titles where the title was multi-platform, but multi as in Windows/Linux, not Windows/Mac/Linux. Interesting trend. I would be very interested to hear about sales numbers on Steam Linux from developers or publishers, and see if the time they spend converting their game is worth it as this stage,…

Flipping through the Linux games section on Steam (which is 11 pages comprising 256 titles) I see exactly nine titles that support Linux but don't support OS X. Subtracting those nine from the total Linux games leaves 247 titles. Subtract those from the Mac game total of 601 titles, and you're left with 354 titles that appear on OS X but not on Linux. That arguably constitutes a trend.

Not only that, but looking at the games themselves makes this even more of a dubious claim.

Signal Ops - Mac version in development, not launched yet.

Aquaria - Mac version was developed by Ambrosia, who doesn't participate in Steam.

Capsized - Temporarily pulled from Steam due to an issue with the Mac port.

DIVO - No public information as it's a one-man dev team without a company name or website.

Salvation Prophecy - Another one-man dev team, the developer mentions he wants to but has no dev experience on Mac.

Euro Truck Simulator 2 - Mac version is in development, Linux version on Steam is a public beta.

Natural Selection 2 - Mac version in development, not launched yet.

Intrusion 2 - Mac version is out via the HIB, it's just not available on Steam yet.

Painkiller Hell & Damnation - Mac version in development, temporarily delayed.

So out of the nine games that comprise this "trend", three that have Mac ports in the wild but aren't available via Steam for various reasons, four have Mac ports in active development, and one who lacks the experience to develop a Mac port but is on record saying he would like to.

That leaves one title who's developer hasn't already released, is in active development, or is exploring a Mac port. I wouldn't mind seeing more games on Linux too but I have to say, I'm pretty sure you're reading into this something that simply isn't there.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#257

Post by sandGorgon »

stinkytaco wrote: post #97
Mikeb85 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem is using Linux Mint... Both Steam and Wine work perfectly on Ubuntu 13.10 (I'm running both on my 13.10 laptop).

> Your problem is using Linux Mint... I think you just provided a shining example of the potential problems linux gaming faces...

Not entirely, its less an issue of Linux and more an issue of software packaging - which, incidentally is being solved right now.

Ubuntu is building a new packaging format called "Click Packages", which possibly would solve a lot of these installation issues.

It would be unsurprising, if Steam/SteamOS uses this at its core, precisely to solve the availability issue.

However, I believe that SteamOS will become the default distro for all gamers.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#258

Post by Glide »

Crito wrote: post #230
rofindesia wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for OSX. Personally I'm a Windows refugee and I've been bouncing around Mint, *buntus, Deb n Arch to find my favourite and TBH I love what I see. Valve has done great work on their Linux Steam client. I foresee a few blockbuster games being ported for Linux and Valve using some great marketing for it to win PC gamers over. Eventually it will become the preferred platform. Unlike OSX, Linux isn't hardware locked…

The only way I see Linux gaming becoming "the thing" is if it cannibalizes Windows gaming. I think that even if all new games have first-class Linux editions, that will still be a difficult future to realize since you will still have legacy games that are Windows only (and wine will never become anything but a rounding error in that regard. Not in the next few years anyway, maybe 10+ years out playing games in Window…

Look at the stuff Parallels has been doing with getting direct X running Virtualized in OS X. It's definitely possible to do. Heck, if it was possible to run OS X on custom hardware and have drivers that supported SLI, it would run respectably as well.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#259

Post by jebblue »

clarry wrote: post #127
Mikeb85 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Steam successfully with Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, Arch, Manjaro... Mint is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable.

Ubuntu is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. Fedora is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. Arch is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. We could play this game all day to make stinkytaco's point.

>> Ubuntu is just a buggy distro

MMM, no. All of the others you listed, yes. Else, I wouldn't be running Linux. I'd be running Windows.

Ubuntu rocks.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#260

Post by Glide »

shinratdr wrote: post #256
ekianjo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it seems that some indie developers are already supporting Linux more often than OSX. I have seen on Steam several titles where the title was multi-platform, but multi as in Windows/Linux, not Windows/Mac/Linux. Interesting trend. I would be very interested to hear about sales numbers on Steam Linux from developers or publishers, and see if the time they spend converting their game is worth it as this stage,…

Flipping through the Linux games section on Steam (which is 11 pages comprising 256 titles) I see exactly nine titles that support Linux but don't support OS X. Subtracting those nine from the total Linux games leaves 247 titles. Subtract those from the Mac game total of 601 titles, and you're left with 354 titles that appear on OS X but not on Linux. That arguably constitutes a trend. Not only that, but looking at t…

Isn't this trend of things being on OS X rather than linux helped by things being ported from iOS back to OS X as well? I've noticed a lot of games on the Mac App Store that happen to be on the iOS App Store.
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