NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#251

Post by nickpyett » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:41 PM UTC

nrmilstein wrote: post #176

nickpyett wrote: post #142

Larry Page should step down as CEO. It would never happen, as Google shares would drop like a bomb and give credence to the argument that the cloud isn't secure enough, but at least it would show that someone at Google cares. It would create a landmark moment though; something that would spark more debate in both the media and with American politicians.

Do you have evidence that Larry Page or Google knew about this? How is the CEO of Google stepping down an adequate reaction to a something that Google doesn't seem to be behind?

I'm not putting any responsibility on Google's CEO that he didn't ask for when he became CEO - he is ultimately responsible for the company's actions. Leaving that amount of user data open to attack is unforgivable, regardless of who is "behind this" or how much he knew.

Secondly, the alleged attack, however it happened, is not the reason he should step down. Larry Page stepping down is going to be really bad for Google, he is one of the finest entrepreneurs of our time, and a great technologist.

He should do it to send a message.

Will their ever be more evidence about what actually happened? Probably not, but a resignation by one of the most powerful CEOs in the world will get some serious attention in the wider debate on privacy.

But like I said, the share price probably comes first...

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#252

Post by spunky » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #227

mapgrep wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likelihood miles and miles of cabling, much of it presumably leased, will be compromised is nowhere near comparable to the likelihood a normal, single-location office/home ethernet LAN will be compromised. (And if you think both are easily compromised, that only adds to my original point.)

Fiber optic links are not so easily compromised. Not without service interruption, which will raise quite a few eyebrows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_tapping

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/undersea-cable-surveillance...

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#253

Post by DannyBee » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #247

DannyBee wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The government takes the position that their agents are almost completely unconstrained by law when it comes to actions taken abroad aimed at non-US persons. " It's worse than this. You also generally can't sue the US government civilly unless they allow you to. US has abrogated sovereign immunity in certain situations for certain types of torts, but ..

Civil immunity is a subset of completely unconstrained by law. For example, judges are entitled to absolute civil immunity for actions taken in an official capacity. But they have occasionally been charged criminally for actions for which they were civilly immune.

"Civil immunity is a subset of completely unconstrained by law"

Sorry, I didn't read it that way :) Since the original thread seemed to be about criminalness, I assumed you meant they could not be charged criminally for their actions.

There is a huge difference, as you point out, between civil and criminal liability.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#254

Post by driverdan » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:43 PM UTC

w_t_payne wrote: post #112

mkr-hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google might have an easier time recruiting edge producing developers than the NSA after the leaks.

I used to work in the antivirus industry, and, as I recall, anything that even hinted at a history of hacking or virus-writing would lead to instant dismissal and black-listing (from pretty much the entire computer security industry). I imagine that the same prohibition would now apply to former government employees also. The sad fact of the matter is that we cannot trust individuals that have ever worked with these…

> ... instant dismissal and black-listing (from pretty much the entire computer security industry)

I'm not sure where you got that from. A large percentage of the security industry is made up of people who got their start as blackhats.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#255

Post by gdwatson » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:45 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #194

a3n wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine Germany closing the US Embassy.

Yeah, it's not like the German people are at all sensitive about the topic of having a secret, unaccountable organisation spying on them.

I certainly can't blame them for being upset. But for a NATO country to expel the US embassy would be a very dramatic act with uncertain consequences. There's a lot of fallout to accept there, and the impact would be broader than US-German relations.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#256

Post by thisiswrong » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:45 PM UTC

sage_joch wrote: post #132

If I scroll the Reddit frontpage (without being logged in), I am not seeing any NSA stories, despite being on the top of /r/WorldNews, /r/news, etc. Anyone know the story behind that?

Reddit has been compromised. Just look at what happened on r/worldnews with the u/douglasmacarther and the RT censorship thing, or how the NSA-Israel Memorandum submissions were purposely 'buried'

http://rt.com/news/rt-reddit-ban-censorship-169/

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#257

Post by ochs » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:47 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #177

jakewalker wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who knows how many thousands of pages they need to read and understand? Also, don't underestimate the difficulty of a reporter understanding these thousands of documents sufficiently to recognize when one is really important.

If they don't understand what's going on, wouldn't that argue in favor of doing more detailed research and analysis before writing claims? The original assumptions/claims in the Guardian story on PRISM are now shown to be false. This caused a lot of negative blowback on the companies involved. Don't we expect our investigative journalists, to well, actually investigate things, instead of rushing to print?

How where they false? The PRISM program is real. There is a way for the NSA to automatically access Google's databases, with Google's knowledge under secret blanket (not case-by-case) court orders. They where clearly lying when they denied any "direct access".

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#258

Post by dmix » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:48 PM UTC

nanidin wrote: post #207

dmix wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible our (UK/Canada/USA/etc) societies pursuit of comfort/safety has descended into what Nietzsche calls the "last man". > the antithesis of the imagined superior being. The last man is tired of life, takes no risks, and seeks only comfort and security . > Nietzsche said that the society of the last man would be too barren to support the growth of great individuals. The last man is possible only by mankind'…

Sounds like happy/content people to me.

> The last men claim to have discovered happiness, but blink every time they say so.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#259

Post by driverdan » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:48 PM UTC

cs702 wrote: post #208

Wow. Years ago, I remember reading Richard Stallman's "How I do my computing"[1], an essay in which he explains why he usually does not connect to any websites from his own machine, downloads web pages from a headless browser running in some server, does not have any user accounts for any web applications, does not buy anything over the Internet ever, does not use any social networking sites, and otherwise abstains f…

> Jeez, that's way too paranoid

Of course it is, it's ridiculous. What the NSA is doing is despicable but why would that keep you from creating a user account or viewing a webpage from your computer?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#260

Post by devx » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 7:50 PM UTC

allochthon wrote: post #206

danbruc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…

I would just cut all cables to the US, ... deny US citizens to enter any foreign country and then just do your shit over there and get happy with it. Whoah, there. Your grievances are well-placed. But keep in mind that it's a certain subset of agencies in the US government that are responsible for the problems you're upset about, not all US citizens. As for fixing things, the government has become literally unmanagea…

Unfortunately, not only do a lot of US citizens still support such practices (I think around 40 percent - as long as they mention "to protect you from terrorists"), but most of the rest who don't agree with the practices, can't be bothered to do much about it, like even calling their representative, let alone going out and protesting.

I do believe this is very true:

> All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing - Burke, Edmund

So, yes, I'd say most Americans are responsible for this yes, by doing nothing to stop it. So don't blame the rest of the world if they start "hating Americans" or "hating America". You are part of it, you are responsible to change the America you want the world to love, too.

Blaming only the government, that you probably voted in, too, does not cut it.