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“People simply empty out”

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Re: “People simply empty out”

#251

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

lars512 wrote: post #223
enraged_camel wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you grossly misunderstood what I said. What I meant by "subsistence living" is working enough to cover the essentials, and no more. These essentials include food, water, shelter, and healthcare. The problem is the last one: it is astronomically expensive, which means that subsistence living still means working a ridiculous amount of hours.

Move outside the US to a country with socialised medicine. Done.

I hope you're not sarcastic. According to the CIA Factbook the US doesn't even make it to the top 50 countries in the world in life expectancy. And there are only 19 developed countries in the world, this makes us worse than 31 developing nations in life expectancy. Used to be number 1 in 1960s.

I'm a dual Polish/US citizen. Poland has better life expectancy according to the CIA Factbook than the US does. Poland had an average income of 240usd per year as recently as 1989. It's about $20k today. Still can provide better life expectancy than the US. Shame.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#252

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

jkaunisv1 wrote: post #219
wffurr wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that the rent is too damn high. Shelter don't come cheap.

Don't forget you're choosing to live in a place with rent.

Being a slave he has no choice. He has to live there where the jobs are. And where the jobs are, the rent is high.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#253

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

homosaur wrote: post #144
orofino wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always kind of shake my head at this. On a board with many people making 100k+ per year, who are the "societal overlords" you're referencing. Sure there are people that make much more than that, but anything beyond 80k allows a person to save quite a bit and "quit" the rat race earlier if they like.

100K is the point where you have the illusion of financial freedom because you can purchase a BMW, buy a nice home in a bland cul-de-sac with a bunch of nameless white dudes, and it's not until you're in your 40s and you're in danger to losing the job to a robot or a whipper-snapper that you understand that kind of "freedom" is actually enslavement. You made the wrong choice because you wasted your life buying plasti…

the misrepresentation is your post is the word 'buy'. You don't buy when a bank owns it and expects you to pay monthly payments. You buy when you own. Is it a big deal to loose job at 45 when you own house and a car or two? It is, but not as much because you don't have the obligation to spend half your previous salary monthly on payments. Which takes us directly to this where the problem really is: debt.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#254

Post by kphild »

ctdonath wrote: post #169
wffurr wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Just wow. Simply amazing you can think that given the distribution of wealth in the world. The only reason the vast majority of us have to work to eat is because the vast majority of the proceeds from our labor go to benefit a tiny global elite. For quite a long time now, the technical means have existed to provide the basics of life to every human being on the planet at a modest cost. And yet we don't – instead…

Average world per capita income, world GDP divided by population, is US$12,000/yr (PPP accounted for). That counts as the basic poverty line in the USA. The tiny global elite you impugne does not hoard anything relevant. They are just a hose thru which a lot of high velocity money flows, most of their income flowing right back out to others. Without them, the structure for working for that $12,000 average income woul…

And there is zero effort put into figuring out a better system, since those in position of wealth and power don't have an incentive to change what feeds them.

With less than 5% people employed in agriculture [1], it must be possible to allocate resources in a way that does not require most people to waste their lives in jobs. The universal basic income, for instance, would achieve that without abolishing capitalism.

The only problem are people who glorify employment.

[1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS?order=wba... (I speak of developed countries only)

Re: “People simply empty out”

#255

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

"They never pay the slaves enough so they can get free, just enough so they can stay alive and come back to work."

I suspect the author is being intentionally misleading regarding the costs of staying alive. It doesn't take $20,000/year. More like $5,000, and even that is being generous.

Early Retirement Extreme and other books cover this in more detail, of course.

I do agree with the overall sentiment of his article, but the concept that the current state of affairs is some kind of intentional conspiracy is incorrect. People like the security of being indebted and forced to work, it seems. They are not forced into such a life.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#256

Post by nasmorn »

Dewie wrote: post #216
dictum wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he suggested people should work to age 80, but work proportionally less in all the years up to there. At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. A 75 year old man could work as hard as a 25 year old man, but the same amount of work will probably take a greater toll on his health. In a way, seems like his scheme is pretty much geared to make…

> At 70, your body is generally not able to do the same things you were doing at 20/30, at least not with the same ease. My father is almost 70, and going on hikes with him leaves me pretty winded. Certainly no walk in the park. I'm just a little more than one third of his age. If he would do some strength training in addition to his jogs and hikes, I imagine he would be in great overall shape. I don't think that I'l…

My father in law is turning 78 and still does 200km bike rides that I cant keep up with. He trains very dedicated about 5 times a week for the last 15 years. Which was the mOst surprising part to me. I always thought no performabce could be gained that late in life much less so much.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#257

Post by epo »

dalek_cannes wrote: post #222
lsc wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one holds a gun to the consumer's head, they just convince themselves they need thing. Then they whine when they haven't saved more than 300k for retirement at age 50 and social security is looking rocky. I think that we in the tech industry are... different here. In other industries, there is a /lot/ of pressure to look the part (well, to look an /expensive/ part.) Have you ever seen a real-estate agent in a car…

There's a way out of the looking-the-part problem. Cultivate an image of an eccentric genius (and work hard to actually have genius level skills) and people will start to focus more on what you can do and less on what you look like you can do . In fact, that's why the tech industry seems to get an exemption -- they're mostly perceived as eccentric geniuses. Also, spend lavishly on the best clothes, eat lavishly, but…

Jesus, you people are delusional!

You are not perceived as eccentric geniuses, not by anyone. Never, ever. They might say that to keep you on the treadmill but the the truth is that (especially by VCs) you are perceived as cannon fodder with a personal hygiene problem. You are kept around as long as you are useful and don't bitch too much. The minute that stops you are out on your ear. Welcome to the real world.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#258

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

brador wrote: post #213
grey-area wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd contend that it wasn't designed to any significant degree. As the parent poster is trying to tell you, it just is. The system we have is just the result of the emergent behaviour of humans interacting, it's more down to chance than design, even if some elements seem predictable. We haven't yet found a way to fairly spread privilege in our societies, so we're stuck with the least worst system, but I would note tha…

Only way to stop hoarding is abundance.

We live in an age of incredible abundance. Yet hoarding continues, does it not?

Re: “People simply empty out”

#259

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

lgieron wrote: post #250
tomp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't be a problem, especially in the US, where there is so much empty space. Maybe more in the tiny Europe, but there is still a lot of empty space here, and a lot of empty houses in remote villages. The problem is just that people want to live in the cities, and there just isn't a lot of space in the cities.

FWIW, Europe is larger than the US (10.1m vs 9.2m km^2).

Over double the population.

Re: “People simply empty out”

#260

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

noonespecial wrote: post #91
_delirium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the somewhat curious (and I think, very American) idea of the "Golden Years". If you put your head down and work hard, taking no vacations, until you're age 65, then you flip 180 degrees in the other direction and retire into a life of full-time leisure. So if you live long enough, it really won't be a waste; you cash it in all at the end! A Scandinavian psychologist somewhat recently proposed a typically Scand…

The "Golden Years" are not what they used to be. The WWII generation likely thought that way, but what I see on the ground now is not working hard to cash in, its working hard in terror of a coming time when you can't work. If you haven't saved enough by that time you die in misery and poverty. Eek over the line and if you don't get an unlucky disease, you get a modicum of comfort. "Enjoy your Golden years" has turne…

Doubt that the golden years ever were what they used to be.
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