German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages • Hacker News Board

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#251

Post by doktrin » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 6:27 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #249

doktrin wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> you know that at least two agencies (FBI & NSA) have total access to your Facebook data. This statement is not supported by anything in the wikipedia article you cited. You're spinning conjecture.

Oh jesus christ. Fine, i'll do the reading for you. I'll just skip to sections with the word "Facebook" to make it easier. Facebook provides data: "Facebook: "We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers. When Facebook is asked for data or information about specific individuals, we carefully scrutinize any such request for compliance with all applicable laws, and provide inform…

I think you're the one who's trolling, and are also frankly acting like an ass. More to the point, none of the passages you cited even support your original claim. You're making unsubstantiated claims about the scope of the surveillance, and obfuscating away the barriers between the federal agencies and the data being collected.

Specifically, you have made and defended the claim that the NSA & FBI have total access to joe anybody's Facebook account. You then went on to cite passages from Wikipedia detailing the PRISM mailbox put in place by [FB / Google]. What you did not mention is how the mailbox is actually populated.

> The data shared in these ways, the people said, is shared after company lawyers have reviewed the FISA request according to company practice. [1]

> FISA orders can range from inquiries about specific people to a broad sweep for intelligence, like logs of certain search terms, lawyers who work with the orders said. There were 1,856 such requests last year, an increase of 6 percent from the year before. [1]

This is from the NYT article cited in the Wikipedia page, which you indirectly cited twice. These requests are routed through a FISA court and limited in number, which is a far cry from "total" access. Your claim is incorrect.

Either way, this is a pretty unproductive discussion and I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this. You're also being belligerent and rude. Have a nice day.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/technology/tech-companies-...

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#252

Post by vabmit » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 9:00 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #84

rbehrends wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously it seems much more likely that Jana provided the messages, not Homeland Security. No, according to the article the printouts were provided by the US immigration officials. In fact, the article draws the inference that the US authorities may have been reading her private Facebook messages for weeks. I'm a native speaker of German; there really isn't any ambiguity here.

No, according to the article the printouts were provided by the US immigration officials. I think the point is that the facts provided by the article don't seem very likely.

It's common for US immigration and border control agents (and Canadian agents) to do Google and other internet searches. This has been disclosed and acknowledged in the US media several times. While the messages were not likely Facebook "chat" messages, they could have been "friends only" posts (or even public posts that the woman considered "private" from a foreign government). My understanding is that US law enforcement has access to Facebook "God view" where they can see all your Facebook posts. They don't need a warrant because Facebook owns the data and is the one giving them permission to view it. It's a different class of data than a "chat/email" in that it's posted, not directly communicated, so there's no reasonable legal expectation of "privacy".

As for personal experience with this, I had a musician friend that posted on his website that he was going to be performing a series of shows in Canada. He was asked at the border if he planned to work while in Canada. He said no and did not have a visa that allows it. The border agent showed him his website, which was found with google, showing that he was planning to work. He was denied entry and banned from Canada for 1 year for lying to a border agent.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#253

Post by ghshephard » Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #237

ghshephard wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been here (legally) for 17+ years, I would concur that there is absolutely nothing that would prevent a Canadian from living/working here, other than their integrity and respect for the law (which, admittedly, Canadian have in abundance) - Well, that and a desire to return home for free medicare, more generous welfare system, ... :-) The only evidence I have submitted to a half dozen employers of my right to w…

You do realize that your TN status is only for a single employer, right? You must obtain independent TN status for each employer you work for. Showing an old TN has no bearing on your eligibility to work for someone else - you must reapply. Not trying to scare you, just noting that I have had at least one friend on TN's who tried to bridge their status without filing a proper change in status ( ie. to B-2 as soon as…

Yup - intimately familiar with the "Must obtain independent status with each employer". Every time I change an employer, new trip to the border to get a new TN.

I did not realize I could file a change in status if my old job concluded before I got a new one. In 2003, I finished up with a company, and my last, "Paid Day" as an employee was September 26th, but I wasn't required to come into the office for the last two weeks - so my last day in the office was around September 12th, a friday. By Sunday, September 14th, I had emptied my apartment, packed up all my possessions, and had returned to Canada.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#254

Post by jacalata » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 12:09 AM UTC

vabmit wrote: post #252

icebraining wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, according to the article the printouts were provided by the US immigration officials. I think the point is that the facts provided by the article don't seem very likely.

It's common for US immigration and border control agents (and Canadian agents) to do Google and other internet searches. This has been disclosed and acknowledged in the US media several times. While the messages were not likely Facebook "chat" messages, they could have been "friends only" posts (or even public posts that the woman considered "private" from a foreign government). My understanding is that US law enforc…

My understanding is that US law enforcement has access to Facebook "God view" where they can see all your Facebook posts.

Where do you get this understanding from?

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#255

Post by ZoFreX » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 9:50 AM UTC

pmelendez wrote: post #227

ZoFreX wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myth status: BUSTED Illegal immigrants pay more into social security than they take out. I don't even live in your country and I know this, come on - read a book.

>" I don't even live in your country and I know this, come on - read a book." I think that comment was uncalled. If you wanted to point out OP disinformation you could just provided the source and it would be as much effective and also would be better appreciated.

Sorry but I'm not willing to be tolerant of intolerance. The chance of actually turning around a wilfully ignorant racist on the internet is very low; broadcasting the message "these attitudes are not socially acceptable" is easier (I suppose you could consider that prevention rather than cure?)

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#256

Post by dedward » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 1:37 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #240

dedward wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians don't need a visa for tourist visits to the US, and passports aren't stamped on exit. It's an incredibly BAD idea in my books, but it's still probably relatively easy for a Canadian to spend a whole lot of time in the US without getting flagged.

Depends how much you travel. And if you have proof of employment in Canada. Returning to Canada after an extended stay and then returning to the US, you will almost always be questioned. Stamps are old school, they log your passport or NEXUS on each entry/exit in their system.

On exit? They don't even look at my passport on exit.

Re: German Girl Turned Away at Border Due to Private Facebook Messages

#257

Post by cantos » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 1:33 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #235

cantos wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All electronic devices are subject to search at the U.S. border. http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/crcl-bor...

No. (Thank the stars for Alex Kozinski). http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130308/13380622263/9th-ci...

Let me be more specific. All that is required is "reasonable suspicion" in order to require access to all the files on your computer, unencrypted. "Reasonable suspicion" is a very weak requirement, as you can see from the document linked to in the techdirt article, and is exactly the same as what is needed for an extended physical search or an extended search of non-electronic property. In other words, there are no special considerations that apply to property just because it is electronic.