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Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

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Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#251

Post by left-struck »

LennyWhiteJr wrote: post #85
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #26

My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. This feels like an email that should have been blasted to the entire company. Top-down, empower employees to think of a more unified experience. Then again, all of the external jokes about Microsoft indicate that every department is fighting for the…

This is unfortunately par for the course at many big companies. I have re-lived this exact same thread so many times I've lost count 1. Leader escalates issue to his team 2. The team scrambles to come up with a solution 3. No one wants to take ownership. #NotMyProblem 4. weeks or months are spent on 'developing a plan' 5. nothinghappens.jpg

You forgot the part where the leader gets more and more frustrated, it’s like a game of hot potato, if you’re the last one holding the potato when Leader finally cracks, all of it lands on you!

I’ve been in this situation in a small company as well. The owner wasn’t managing the company and there was no other manager. So the owner would express his frustration in an all hands meeting “I don’t like x” or “we’re going to do y from now on” but he would not assign the task to anyone, or give ownership. He would come up with some insane new goal but no plan, no equipment, and no one person who’s in charge of making sure the required resources, time and responsibility is assigned. So nothing would change, a month later there would be another meeting, with a middle aged man having a tantrum about why did no one do anything!? Why is no one listening to me?

You might be thinking it’s a good opportunity to accept some responsibility, it might get you a promotion or be a good learning opportunity. Yeah I tried that for a while, if you succeed, congratulations, you now have one new task for which you’re responsible for without any extra compensation or benefit. If you fail? Well guess who’s getting the blame..,

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#252

Post by left-struck »

saaaaaam wrote: post #57
sajithdilshan wrote: post #27

Read the whole thing and all I saw was zero accountability, zero ownership and zero consequences. That’s how great products die or become a nightmare. Every team keeps on passing the ball to other team and nothing gets fixed or done or improved.

But it didn’t. And Microsoft is worth $3.5 trillion. So maybe actually everyone should take a leaf out of the Microsoft book. When something is on fire, pass the buck to other people and stand around saying “that thing is on fire… wouldn’t it be great if someone called the fire brigade? I have the number here. One of you guys, give them a call.”

Something is really broken when a broken company produces broken products and is doing great financially.

I would not call this success. I would not want to emulate this.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#253

Post by left-struck »

MBCook wrote: post #96
ebcode wrote: post #65

Culture flows from the top. Bill doesn’t take responsibility in his email, so he’s teaching everyone downstream to pass the buck like he does.

That was one thing I noticed. Once they started passing the blame, almost immediately, I would expect the first thing to be a new email from Gates saying “Bob, you’re doing this, Frank, you’re doing that, no excuses, get it done.” Nope. Nothing like that.

I’m not sure tbh but it looks like he was not included in the thread after the first email

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#254

Post by hellohello2 »

Atreiden wrote: post #58
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, Thiel is using deep brainwashing techniques in his mail to Zuck and his people. If you know, you know ..

I read through it and had a few things I've flagged in my head - the ego fluffing, repeated usage of "Millennial" to the point of redundancy, and the framing of things in terms of "big picture", but can you elaborate on "deep brainwashing techniques"? I'm genuinely interested. This entire email thread feels a bit surreal to me

There is no redundancy, the keyword is repeated for affective impression.

Consider the following example, read this letter while paying close attention: https://xcancel.com/PierrePoilievre/status/18835154856582268...

Notice how often the keyword repeats. It is not repeated to communicate information, but to communicate affective state.

If you don't understand how it works, imagine the above letter instead said "Trump", and read it again.

Don't focus on what the letter says, instead on how it feels. Actually go and read it again, start to finish. Don't read past this line until you did.

Do you see how each time the keyword repeats, it affects your emotional state just a bit more? Can you start to feel it?

I'm assuming you hate Trump, but if you don't, just pretend you do. Then read the same letter one more time, imagine it said "Trump" instead and that the Republicans, which you really hate, just got re-elected. Do read it one more time.

You must understand that the keyword is repeated for affective impression.

Now read the letter again, one last time, slowly. Pay attention to the keyword, and how you feel each time it repeats. Imagine it said really "Trump", and that you really hate him, and what he did to your government.

The keyword does repeat, but there is no redundancy. It is repeated for affective impression. It only feels surreal because you are emotionally disinvested.

If you actually read the letter over and over, and really imagine how it feels, as if it were of deep concern to you, then you will understand. You seem smart, so I'm sure you will understand.

The keyword is repeated for affective impression.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#255

Post by cindyllm »

left-struck wrote: post #251
LennyWhiteJr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfortunately par for the course at many big companies. I have re-lived this exact same thread so many times I've lost count 1. Leader escalates issue to his team 2. The team scrambles to come up with a solution 3. No one wants to take ownership. #NotMyProblem 4. weeks or months are spent on 'developing a plan' 5. nothinghappens.jpg

You forgot the part where the leader gets more and more frustrated, it’s like a game of hot potato, if you’re the last one holding the potato when Leader finally cracks, all of it lands on you! I’ve been in this situation in a small company as well. The owner wasn’t managing the company and there was no other manager. So the owner would express his frustration in an all hands meeting “I don’t like x” or “we’re going…

[dead]

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#256

Post by iJohnDoe »

microcantbuilt wrote: post #113

I've said this before but it's worth repeating. Microsoft can no longer engineer a software product, it simply cannot build anything innovative. It can certainly buy other companies and use what they have built. But even then they will over time ruin the product.

I don’t know why people forget that Microsoft is almost entirely outsourced to India. It’s the reason there is no coherent product or vision for anything at Microsoft.

If you put together an amazing team, in the same building, with the goal of getting Windows under control, then you would at least have a chance of succeeding. You would have a whole new set of problems though and that’s where you would need an amazing manager that had the final say on every decision. A trusted team that could be left alone to succeed.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#257

Post by csnover »

bluegatty wrote: post #242
dpark wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real point is that this is a random email that Gates sent to some execs sharing a bad experience with the product, and some people on HN are trying to take it as a much deeper thing than it really is. A leader should be able to send candid communication to other leaders. A culture where execs are unable to communicate candidly to their peers or other high-level leaders is a toxic one. It would be absurd t…

This is not about candor, it's about framing and respecting what kind of power people have, who is responsible for what. "Hey gang - I know I'm not Dear Leader anymore - and - I don't want to get in the way of your new Dear Leader, but I want to share with you a bad experience I had with this product. A, B, C, D. E .. was really bad. After thinking about it - I think much of this lays at my feet. In the Golden Era of…

> Hey gang

“How do you do, fellow kids?”

> After thinking about it

Just say the thing.

> kinds of outcomes

What outcomes specifically?

> nipped in the bud

“stop”

> I suggest this probably happened because

“I think”

> ball dropped

“failure”

> must be the responsibility at the VP/Executive

What does this mean? Fire the VPs who failed to do their jobs? Say what you mean.

> ensuring smooth handoff

“doing their jobs”

> rethink and extend

“fix”

> engender a culture of design

This is a meaningless phrase.

> different kind of thinking

What kind of thinking?

> or a process to be fixed

Processes are how things get done! If programmers push garbage into the list of installed applications, that’s a process failure. If a product team makes a download available but it can’t be found on the main web site’s list of downloads, that’s a process failure. When things get done wrong it’s definitionally a process failure. Process also doesn’t flow from culture, they each exert influence on the other. Bad process will lead to bad culture as much as bad culture will lead to bad process.

I will reiterate what a sibling commenter already said: Nothing about this mealy mouthed corporate jargon liberally drizzled in passive voice comes across as candid. Effective communication does not look like this. Effective communication is assertive. It offers direct actionable advice, or asks direct questions which result in actionable answers.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#258

Post by timnetworks »

I shared a google search query today (q?=cabbage patch kids) and stripped the end of the spaghetti URL. The link preview showed as an advertisement for BigBoxStore (it won't get free placement here).

Platform usability has gone completely out the window (no pun truly) like I wish the product managers responsible for this should do instead.

Perhaps the only real solution is that software developers are treated like realtors, name and face or gtfo.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#259

Post by emerongi »

bluegatty wrote: post #242
dpark wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real point is that this is a random email that Gates sent to some execs sharing a bad experience with the product, and some people on HN are trying to take it as a much deeper thing than it really is. A leader should be able to send candid communication to other leaders. A culture where execs are unable to communicate candidly to their peers or other high-level leaders is a toxic one. It would be absurd t…

This is not about candor, it's about framing and respecting what kind of power people have, who is responsible for what. "Hey gang - I know I'm not Dear Leader anymore - and - I don't want to get in the way of your new Dear Leader, but I want to share with you a bad experience I had with this product. A, B, C, D. E .. was really bad. After thinking about it - I think much of this lays at my feet. In the Golden Era of…

I would hate to receive an email like this.

Your point could be made by simply adding the following at the very top of the original email: “Besides fixing the specific issues in this flow, we should consider how it got this bad in the first place and make changes to prevent it from happening again. I’ll support you and provide whatever you need.”

Done. Let the people who are responsible figure it out. They’re smart and capable, no need to baby them. You’ve made clear that you see it and it’s not acceptable, but you also understand that to drive through bigger changes, you’ll need to back them up and chip in when they need you.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#260

Post by gopher_space »

dpark wrote: post #246
bluegatty wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-----> "It’s absolutely vacuous to say 'I take responsibility for this' when you are telling a group of people they need to fix their shit." Totally false. It's literally the opposite of vacuous to take responsibility for his failure to set up the culture and system wherein this kind of stuff would not happen - while at the same time starting a fire so that the work is done. Allocating responsibility is one of the mo…

You keep talking about “taking responsibility”. Unless the person taking responsibility is also taking action, which you aren’t even proposing, then it’s just words. It’s more sugar coating. “It’s not you, it’s me.” > This is a 'put out the fire' type reactionary stuff. After the fire fighting comes the postmortem where the systemic issues should be discussed. A fire is a great way to spur both short and long term ac…

Do you think personal responsibility travels uphill or downhill?

Each of the letters in CEO stand for a word with specific meaning, and when you put them together they tell you where the buck stops. It’s not a job for people who can’t take responsibility for their fuckups.

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