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Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

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Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#251

Post by otterley »

lrvick wrote: post #244
hnlmorg wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a lawyer and even I know that argument would never hold up given the plethora of other laws that have been implemented through software. Not to mention copyright and patent claims too.

Being afraid and hoping you are never forced to add code to a project you do not want to add is letting the chilling effects work as designed. We need to all loudly and publicly say "Fuck off, I will defend my rights if needed", so they understand how expensive the fight is going to be. Fear is power. Do not give your enemies power.

> hoping you are never forced to add code to a project you do not want to add

You keep saying that, but that's not the realistic outcome. The realistic outcome isn't an injunction forcing you to add code. It'd be to force you to pull it out of circulation.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#252

Post by bryanlarsen »

genewitch wrote: post #193
bryanlarsen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "everyone must provide their ID so we can verify their age" but that's not this law. This law requires self-declaration by whoever creates the accounts on the device.

and that's as useful as self-documenting "i am over 18" or "over 21" for things that require that, without any document checks. this is a way to get something legal on paper, the rest of the stuff (patches, if you will) comes later. This asserts that age is important enough to force an operating system to comply, this opens the door.

> and that's as useful as self-documenting "i am over 18" or "over 21" for things that require that, without any document checks.

No OS I'm aware of allows non-admin users to add new users to the system. Parents that care about these sorts of things don't give their kids admin access to their computers.

> the rest of the stuff (patches, if you will) comes later.

Unless the legislation allows for such patches through non-legislative process, patches to legislation generally happens on a ~20 year cycle in my experience.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#253

Post by genewitch »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #70
skinfaxi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started with showing ID at airports and now we have to take off our shoes. Slippery slope is the actual modus operandi of government.

That argument might work better if just recently we no longer have to take off our shoes.

because of the backscatter machines? I'm not sure you understand what is being claimed.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#254

Post by [deleted] »

thephyber wrote: post #146
boredatoms wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery slope actually works though. Makes no sense to treat it like some unwelcome argument

Slippery Slope is the assertion that A therefore B therefore C therefore D. It is frequently a fallacy because D isn't predetermined by A when humans are involved. If you believe in free will, each of B, C, D are independent decisions. Sometimes we stop at A. Sometimes we pass Prohibition as a Constitutional Amendment, and later roll it back.

[deleted]

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#255

Post by lovich »

lrvick wrote: post #119
greyface- wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news: the legislation doesn't target you as an individual. "Operating system provider" means a commercial or non-profit entity that controls the Internet-enabled device's operating system, including the design, programming, or supply of operating systems for the Internet-enabled devices.

stagex accepts tax deductable donations via opencollective but we do not actually have a registered legal entity, so yes, probably fine. I mostly just want to make it clear this type of legislation is unenforceable and a waste of everyone's time.

How are you deducting the taxes without a legal entity? Or did you just mean that they would be tax deductible but not that you are necessarily deducting anything.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#256

Post by otterley »

nemomarx wrote: post #235
kube-system wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could stop doing that thing, it isn't an impossibility under lex non cogit ad impossibilia.

what could they be compelled to stop doing here? Mechanically speaking, I mean. I can imagine fines or contempt of court, etc But how would you remove an international distro from "the marketplace" if it's free and not operating a business?

Same way anything else gets pulled from distribution. You shut down the servers, destroy keys, remove files, etc. Sure, the files may remain in circulation from unofficial sources, but that's not your problem, as long as you're no longer facilitating it.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#257

Post by busterarm »

otterley wrote: post #201
DennisP wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless the PGP decision has been overturned, code as free speech is in fact a valid defense. If the government couldn't stop code they claimed were "munitions" from getting distributed, then it seems unlikely that they'll stop a Linux distro. Corporations do whatever seems most profitable. We can't base our understanding of constitutional rights on whether Meta decides to defend them.

There was no "PGP decision." You're making that up.

Correct. This is so wildly misunderstood. Zimmermann was investigated for 3 years but formal charges were never filed.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#259

Post by wtallis »

nemomarx wrote: post #235
kube-system wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could stop doing that thing, it isn't an impossibility under lex non cogit ad impossibilia.

what could they be compelled to stop doing here? Mechanically speaking, I mean. I can imagine fines or contempt of court, etc But how would you remove an international distro from "the marketplace" if it's free and not operating a business?

If anyone is distributing it within Illinois jurisdiction (or maybe even distributing it elsewhere while maintaining a business presence in Illinois), they could be at risk of qualifying as an operating system provider under Illinois law.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#260

Post by pwg »

bnjms wrote: post #27

So in red states porn is being used, and in blue states TikTok and Instagram are being used. Is anyone tracking who is behind the concerted efforts here? For example, which organizations, executives, lobbyists and politicians are valid and responsible parties?

These bills all suddenly appeared, as if by magic, in multiple state houses only a very short time after Zuck was on the stand in the Facebook trial early in the year testifying that "the right place to do age verification is in the operating system".

Now, granted, correlation is not always causation. But it sure stinks of something Meta had their lobbyists push just after Zuck's testimony so as to shift the liability risk of handling age appropriate material away from Meta properties and onto operating systems (Microsoft, Apple, Google (Android)).

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