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Who Is America's Homer?

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251–260 of 261 posts

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#251

I think it is somewhat weird that nobody put Twain in. I could also see someone suggesting Hemingway, although I don't buy it. Hart Crane at this point in time seems somewhat secondary, so that was surprising. The Tracy Chapman thing seemed seriously like a troll, I could definitely agree to a black Homer, but then I guess it would be Langston Hughes or James Baldwin as my choices. To suggest someone though who has t…

The lowest person in a society is a doorway to the structure of that society. Twain narrated this regardless of whether we consider it poetry or folkloric fiction.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#252

Poetry has fallen out of favor in culture at large, so I think it’s more logical to expand the question to authors more generally. In that case, I think The Great Gatsby is the most logical equivalent to the Iliad and Odyssey. To me it conveys the essential elements of the American character: obsessed with reinvention via commerce, but inevitably tied to the past. It’s also probably been read by the majority of Ameri…

> It’s also probably been read by the majority of Americans, or at least the story is well-known.

Read by, yes. Story well-known, I doubt. What is the story of The Great Gatsby, in a few words? (But then again, what is the story of the Iliad, anyway? Something about the wrath of Achilles, right?) [I should clarify: to answer that the Iliad is about "the Trojan war" or "Achilles dragging the body of Hector" seems insufficient to me in the same way it would be insufficient to say that Gatsby is about "a guy who throws parties" or "a murder in a swimming pool."]

Twain is the obvious "American Homer" not just because his name pops immediately to mind, but also because his two best-known works (Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn) stand in the same relation to each other as the Iliad and Odyssey: a minor character in one becomes the protagonist of the other. As someone above already commented, too, both works are episodic and have given us many pop-culture images: I dare say only Tom's painting of the fence is proverbial, but the cave adventure, the feud, attending one's own funeral, and probably several more episodes are embedded in American pop culture to the same extent as the Cyclops, Circe, and the Lotus-Eaters. Gatsby is a great novel, but what has it given to our collective unconscious? The green light and... beautiful shirts?

What does it say that there have been three adequate film adaptations of Gatsby, while there have been (as far as I know) none at all of Tom Sawyer, Huckleberry Finn, the Iliad, or the Odyssey?

(Side note: About 15 years ago I read Fitzgerald's The Beautiful and Damned and thought it was very good and inventive; I recommend it. These days Wikipedia tells me that "many Fitzgerald scholars typically consider The Beautiful and Damned to be among the author's weaker novels," so maybe something excellent is waiting for me if I ever get around to reading This Side of Paradise or Tender is the Night.)

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#253
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What work of Disney (company, not the man per se...) is more influential on the modern American Psyche (today, in 2026) than Ironman, X-Men or Spiderman? Moana? Sleeping Beauty? Mickey Mouse? The only major "American identity" film I can think of was Princess and the Frog. Maybe Big Hero 6 (at least the San Francisco half). ----------- The others are correct in that Mark Twain is probably the real answer. But I'm thi…

In the spirit of “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” - James D. Nicoll Yes, Sleeping Beauty, et al were originally from "not the US" countries, very few people outside those co…

Counter point: the opening song of Beauty and the Beast starts with "Bonjour".

Basil of Baker Street (Great Mouse Detective) literally saves the Queen of England.

Robin Hood and The Sword in the Stone are also similarly very, very British. No one can possibly confuse the issue.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actor and Director and Producer would be more than enough for everybody. Especially combined with several Oscar wins as director and producer, and even Oscar nominations as actor (on top of iconic roles). But he has also been an OST composer for some films.

The point is a Homer or Twain, etc, were original authors of works and Eastwood was not an author of any of those works. If an unknown actor portrayed the lead in a Huckleberry Finn film, that would not elevate that actor to the level of a Mark Twain as an author.

As an author no.

But as a director, they could be elevated to the status of creator, and perhaps directing is the truer American art form rather than ...epic poetry or the novel. Which speaks to the core of the question at a different level.

Besides, Homer didn't write his own plots either, he adapted original screenplays, so to speak!

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

British.

He’s from NYC

And T.S. Elliot was a Bostonian, but adopted British!

Kubrick made all his iconic movies (except Spartacus and Paths of Glory) while settled in Britain, and shot most of them in British studios.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stan Lee probably had more influence than Walt Disney in terms of how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees us. Seriously doubt it. Both "how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees them" was established way before both the MCU and before superhero comics became anything else than a preoccupation of the nerdy niche. In the 60s, and 70s, and 80s, few fucks were given aro…

What work of Disney (company, not the man per se...) is more influential on the modern American Psyche (today, in 2026) than Ironman, X-Men or Spiderman? Moana? Sleeping Beauty? Mickey Mouse? The only major "American identity" film I can think of was Princess and the Frog. Maybe Big Hero 6 (at least the San Francisco half). ----------- The others are correct in that Mark Twain is probably the real answer. But I'm thi…

>What work of Disney (company, not the man per se...) is more influential on the modern American Psyche (today, in 2026) than Ironman, X-Men or Spiderman?

All of them. None of those MCU movies really did anything to the "american psyche", forgettable entertainment.

And even if they had done, the question was "in terms of how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees us". Nobody sees Americans in in 2026 the way Stan Lee or MCU saw them. Not even themselves. How they have been seen in general wasn't determined in 2026 or 2020 or 2000, but in the 20th century. And even how they're seen and see themselves in 2026 is not defined by the MCU either.

Concerning the general view on US, Disney movies (especially including Pixar) have had much more influence. But I mentioned other even more important things: Hollywood in general (pre-MCU, from early film to John Ford, and to Copolla and Scorsese), the western and the idea of the west/'frontier', rock n' roll...

>Sleeping Beauty? That's French. Beauty and the Beast? Also French. Great Mouse Detective? British. Alice in Wonderland? British. Pinocchio? Italian.

In their Disney treatment they're 100% American.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would more consider him a Shakespeare of American Cinema rather then a Homer. Shakespeare was a prolific playwright (and a poet) who wrote plays about varied subjects and situations across the World of, some of his plays are of legendary status, and others not so great (same is true of Spielberg’s movies). Shakespeare’s plays (just like Spielberg) are also grounded in history and fiction rather then folk art and lo…

Spielberg has dealt with a few American tropes: UFO encounters, WW2 service men, slavery, monster sharks, road chases, cowboy archaeologists, tricksters, Abraham Lincoln, and hauntings.

And his dealings with American tropes is much more like how Shakespeare dealt with English tropes: War of the Roses, Julius Cesar, dissident woman, Scottish ghosts, Greek forest ferries, Moorish commanders, Jewish moneylenders, Henry VIII etc. etc.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twain or Steinbeck. I'd say anyone else is folly

Even Bob Dylan?

The impact he had was substantial, but I don't rank him above Twain or Steinbeck.

Aside, I do find it amusing when I go read old sf, like the ship who sang, and they mention"dylanists" as a serious movement

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially Bob Dylan. Nasal whining isn't historical America.

I haven’t heard Homer’s voice. There’s more to being a songwriter than vocal talent, though.

I haven't either, but I imagine it being the exact opposite of Dylan's. Kind of a thunderous booming bards tale voice as opposed to nasal whining.

Re: Who Is America's Homer?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Bob Dylan?

The impact he had was substantial, but I don't rank him above Twain or Steinbeck. Aside, I do find it amusing when I go read old sf, like the ship who sang, and they mention"dylanists" as a serious movement

I’m not sure I’d rank him above either of those myself. Maybe not above Langston Hughes, Ray Bradbury, or Kurt Vonnegut personally. I was mostly asking about the anyone else being folly part. I think there are a few people who deserve to be in the same discussion is all.
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