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Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#251

Post by maleldil »

debugnik wrote: post #144
dandellion wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll never be able to agree on where that line should go. First because there's a cultural component to it. I'm from Spain so I can only talk for myself, but while he uses rude language, nothing I've ever read from him ever seemed particularly offensive. And second because any activity involving a large group of people will need some amount of toxicity if only to prevent other toxic people from derailing it, and si…

> nothing I've ever read from him ever seemed particularly offensive You may have missed the "retroactively aborted" one. https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/7/6/495 To be fair, he's got much more self-control now.

The irony of censoring "f*ck" while saying something like that.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#252

Post by LetsGetTechnicl »

ActorNightly wrote: post #241
AKSF_Ackermann wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Late intel macs are in fact crimes against thermal design, but this is no longer a problem on most M-based ones (except the 14-inch M4 max, that one does throttle.). The keyboard is also no longer e-waste tier. The rest is true, but you may wish to update your talking points.

The Macs all throttle with heavy workload that raises the temps no matter what you do. The efficiency (and battery life) comes from the hardware being configured to do certain things very efficiently, like video decoding. Compute is compute, Apple didn't circumvent physics. It just managed to take chunks of that compute that represents the most average use case, and make it more efficient, in the same way that ASIC m…

Isn't thermal throttling an issue for all laptops, really any computer?

Also the keyboards have improved a lot since the original butterfly design.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#253

Post by palata »

ActorNightly wrote: post #221
cavoirom wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use MacBook anyway, this project brings open platform to my MacBook, I'm happy with that. I guess many people have the same situation like me. I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook.

>I don't use other laptop because their hardwares aren't comparable to MacBook. Yes, because being non repairable, being non upgradable, having early thermal throttling due to subar cooling, and having a mediocre keyboard is SO much better than anything else that is out there. I swear, the blatant lies that come out of supposed Mac fans on HN is almost like Apple is astroturfing this forum with shill accounts. Whats…

I am very much a Linux person, I have been running Linux on my personal computers (and mostly on my work machine) for 20 years. But in the last few years I changed company and had to work on an M-series Macbook, and the battery life is absolutely amazing.

For people who mostly use their browser and a few programs, I understand why they would want to use a Macbook. I mean, I can go for a full weekend without charging it, and I do programming stuff where I compile regularly.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#254

Post by palata »

ActorNightly wrote: post #243
mrkeen wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I eat all these downsides and more, just for the battery life. I was a (mostly) happy Asahi Fedora user for a while, but eventually went back to macos (for the battery life). I'm not sure how much better it is, but I actually trust that it will sleep and wake properly when I use its lid. The prices and ram have been fucked though, long before the latest ram crisis. I have a macbook m1 air, which I bought se…

In the very extreme case of not having access to charging for extended periods, I would understand the battery life argument, even though there are laptops you can buy with comparable battery life than are non mac, especially if you run a lightweight linux distro with i3wm that basically means your cpu sits fully idle when not in use (unlike Macs which constantly phone home to Apple) But with fast charging and basica…

> even though there are laptops you can buy with comparable battery life than are non mac, especially if you run a lightweight linux distro with i3wm

I am totally a Linux person, but I have to say: I run Alpine with Sway, and my battery life is nothing compared to a Macbook. It's just another world, it doesn't remotely compare.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#255

Post by musicale »

rvz wrote: post #85
drdexebtjl wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one buys Apple Silicon laptops to run Linux because they can barely run Linux. But if they could, Apple would sweep the market for Linux laptops. Macbook hardware completely outclasses even the high end options.

> No one buys Apple Silicon laptops to run Linux because they can barely run Linux. Almost no-one bought Intel Macs for dual-booting Linux either (Unless you are Linus Torvalds and a tiny amount of people who use Linux on Intel Macs). > But if they could, Apple would sweep the market for Linux laptops. Not true. They cannot even run Windows on them. The entire point of Intel Macs was for running Windows on a Mac whic…

> The entire point of Intel Macs was for running Windows on a Mac

That wasn't the point for Apple. After pointing out that PowerPC hadn't hit 3GHz (as he had promised two years prior) and that there was no PowerBook G5, Steve Jobs clearly explained the rationale for intel Macs:

> As we look ahead, we can envision some amazing products we want to build for you, and we don't know how to build them with the future PowerPC road map.

https://allaboutstevejobs.com/videos/keynotes/wwdc_2005

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#256

Post by musicale »

GTP wrote: post #233
sneak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a sales tactic. Apple supports their old hardware with updates longer than anyone in the industry. The recent ones have been due to the architecture transition, maintaining BC with amd64 has significant costs.

This is what I assumed as well, but online I found people who were able to update a ~2015 MacBook Pro to a version of macOS more recent than the latest supported one, and it still worked.

Both are true. Apple's official qualification, continuous integration, bug fixing, backporting, etc. takes more effort than a hobbyist getting things to (mostly) work. But the main issue for Apple is focus: Apple wants its product development organization to focus on the next new thing, not on the past.

I'm mostly OK with Apple's 7-10 years of support, but I also have older Macs that still work fine and that I wish were safe to connect to the internet while running macOS - without relying on various hacks or workarounds.

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#257

Post by musicale »

WD-42 wrote: post #76
sneak wrote: post #8

It is baffling to me that Apple, ostensibly a hardware company (that happens to be pursuing services revenue the way a crackhead pursues crack), ridiculously flush with cash, doesn’t throw 2 or 3 of their thousands of FTEs on this. The goodwill/brand marketing alone is worth their comp, and it will absolutely move units as well. Linux people LOVE laptops, and Apple makes the best laptops by a parsec. It seems like 10…

Or they could just make their schematics available and save 99% of the reverse engineering the Asahi team has to do. 1000s of hours of work for what is just sitting in a drawer in Cupertino. But they won’t.

The schematics tell you how things are wired together, which is maybe useful if you are building compatible hardware.

The ASIC specifications tell you how to operate and program the chips, which is what device drivers need.

Better for Linux would be for Apple to provide open source drivers.

(Linux would also benefit if NVIDIA provided open source drivers, for example.)

Re: Asahi Linux 7.1 Progress Report

#258

Post by pacifika »

w10-1 wrote: post #146
sneak wrote: post #8

It is baffling to me that Apple, ostensibly a hardware company (that happens to be pursuing services revenue the way a crackhead pursues crack), ridiculously flush with cash, doesn’t throw 2 or 3 of their thousands of FTEs on this. The goodwill/brand marketing alone is worth their comp, and it will absolutely move units as well. Linux people LOVE laptops, and Apple makes the best laptops by a parsec. It seems like 10…

Apple open-sourced their container tooling and they also support Linux in their Virtualization framework. Anyone can run any compatible Linux now in a VM, with bare-metal speed but limited to virtio devices. To me it's baffling that more people don't run Linux this way.

Mainly I’m concerned about shortcut conflicts such as command q
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