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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

reuters.com

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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#251

Post by Aerolfos »

cryo32 wrote: post #49

I'm glad this is the case. It is the correct outcome. I've heard students actually discussing that they will just use an LLM to shortcut work. I even have friends in their 50s who can barely think for themselves now without having to refer to "AI". And at least two of them are teachers. Leading on from that, the staff are the most dangerous. My daughter has had generated exercises provided to her from multiple teache…

> Leading on from that, the staff are the most dangerous. My daughter has had generated exercises provided to her from multiple teachers, which are quite frankly entirely wrong. This was hilariously pointed out after I called a meeting with her mathematics teacher over it. They questioned my knowledge on the matter with the insane assumption that "AI is foolproof". I had to hit them with a clue stick then.

They have also been explicitly told by the department of education to NOT do this, but it hasn't stopped lazy teachers all over. Apparently not doing your job, in direct contradiction to your given rules, is ok because "it's the future".

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#252

Post by ndriscoll »

solid_fuel wrote: post #208
ndriscoll wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is specifically a consumer model (or specifically ChatGPT) issue. e.g. IME codex does not do this, and will just tell you when you're missing something or somehow wrong, and Gemini does this weird thing where it tells you you're a genius and then immediately starts correcting everything you said.

Sycophancy is just one aspect of the problems I mentioned, though. Another huge one is hallucination, and one that is actually far worse than I thought: > It’s been proven that when a model is trained on large volumes of highly factual and non-theoretical data, it learns to always have an answer. DeepSeek V4 Pro (1.6T params, 49B active, 44 AA Intelligence Index score) has a ludicrous 94% hallucination score on the A…

Except I generally do know when I'm wrong because I'm working in a domain I am familiar with, and it will often create experiments on the fly unprompted (well, prompted, but generically in AGENTS.MD) to check itself. My experience actually using it for software is that it almost never makes up answers. The answer for hallucinations is fairly simple: give it facts and tools to ground itself.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#253

Post by seiie »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #86
solid_fuel wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. AI has no business being used in 1:1 tutor mode before the hallucination and sycophancy issues are completely resolved. As is, I can easily see it being a hindrance to building actual understanding. Just one example - it's very common to see ChatGPT and the like respond with "you're absolutely correct! Great insight" to something that is a complete misunderstanding.

Teachers hallucinate too. I’ve had creationists and communists and tin-foil-hat (chem trails, 5g, etc) teachers. Surely you can imagine an AI tutor that is higher than zero ROI.

lol scraping the bottom of the barrel

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#254

Post by gpt5 »

solid_fuel wrote: post #224
gpt5 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to comment that you missed the joke. However, it was still curious to me that you took it so seriously, so I looked at your comment history. It is almost all political (and outraged) commentary, and you tend to dominate posts like this with many comments, without adding nuance, substance, or listening to the other side. It reinforces a pet theory I have, that if I'll build a dynamic filter to HN to filter…

> It is almost all political (and outraged) commentary, and you tend to dominate posts like this with many comments, without adding nuance, substance, or listening to the other side. Facts don't care about your feelings, bud. And neither do I. > It reinforces a pet theory I have, that if I'll build a dynamic filter to HN to filter out political/ideological commentors, the quality of discussion I'll see will rise up a…

You've probably made 20 comments just in this post alone, all attacking people and treating things as black and white. Do you really don't realize that this makes Hacker News worse, and is probably not healthy for you either?

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#255

Post by Jakob »

JimsonYang wrote: post #236
simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

> Facing a broad decline in education test scores, the government in 2024 banned smartphones from schools and has given teachers back more powers to enforce discipline in the classroom. I remember seeing an nyt article where there was mixed results on cell phone bans. While they increased socialization among students, the school didnt see better test scores. We'll have to see if a ban on AI can improve test scores-I…

I would see that as an absolute win. Socialization is the main point I send my kids to school.

Socialization leads to discourse which leads to learning.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#256

Post by wieiw »

petcat wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those bans were implemented without evidence. We have evidence AI exposure reduces learning and cognition. There are probably situations where it enhances it. But we haven’t delineated those yet, and so shouldn’t be rolling out a half-baked system more likely to hurt than to help.

what is the evidence

[flagged]

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#257

Post by alexashka »

theptip wrote: post #241
simonw wrote: post #56

> Pupils from first through seventh grade, aged 6 to 13, should as a general rule not be using AI, while those in lower secondary school, aged 14 to 16, can cautiously adopt tools under teachers' supervision, the government said. Sounds right to me. Kids under 13 need to learn to read, write and comprehend text. Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. They can play with AI at home, and after 13 the…

> Generative AI is not going to help them with those skills. I think it's more complex than this. AI is both the best technology ever invented for avoiding learning, and the best technology ever invented for learning. The cat is out of the bag. If teachers are asking for take-home essay assignments in 2026 then students are going to use AI and learn nothing. "AI detectors" are nowhere near reliable enough to be fair;…

Stupid people never have the appetite or ability to 'tackle' anything. It's their defining characteristic.

It's not more complex than stupid people in charge, stupid results follow. Smart people with integrity in charge, good things follow.

AI changes nothing.

Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school

#258

Post by asdff »

baq wrote: post #14

AI used to write homework should be banned. AI in 1:1 tutor mode with proper hardware (live scanning pen and paper), harness and guardrails should be wildly successful (in terms of education outcomes) especially in elementary school.

Tutor mode sucks because even if it was actually accurate and didn't hallucinate, it isn't scoped to what the class is actually covering within a given topic.

Best AI is still your own brain, trained on paying attention in class and reading the assigned content.

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