Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 274 posts

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#251

Post by khuey »

thewebguyd wrote: post #202
JeremyNT wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all extremely dystopian and I don't see how things improve. The handful of megacorps that have access to the compute and troves of stolen IP to train their secret models on have no incentive to contribute back. They say their models are too dangerous for the public, so they can nerf the GA versions while allowing only their preferred megacorp or nation state partners access to the real secret good versions. We c…

> They don't do this stuff out of the kindness of their hearts No, but they do have incentive to continue to release with open weights because doing so directly affects the US based labs that are doing this for profit and power. What's likely to happen is import controls on software as a form of US protectionism. It will be the encryption battle all over again, but this time about your right to both run AI models loc…

I don't think there's any realistic way to block importing open source models.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#253

Post by Eridrus »

aveao wrote: post #173
tyingq wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will absolutely cause some non-trivial number of customers to shift their configs away from Anthropic.

It's worthwhile to remember that this is only true of Mythos/Fable and other future models of "similar or higher capability levels" (ant is treating this as a new tier of model above Opus). Anyone who's already been happy using Haiku/Sonnet/Opus on Bedrock will not be affected by this at all.

So basically all models going forward?

I don't think anyone currently thinks the Haiku/Sonnet/Opus models are "good enough" such that they would not want improvements. Users may be cost conscious, but almost every task could be done better.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#254

Post by Eridrus »

baq wrote: post #20
rohansood15 wrote: post #2

Pretty sure this doesn't work for any regulated enterprise or government client. But AWS knows this, so I am curious why they'd agree to it.

> why they'd agree to it that's obvious, but perhaps worth stating: it's worth it, demand for the model is unprecedented and the only downside for Anthropic if AWS rejected would be some revenue pushed a quarter away as they get Fable ready on their recently acquired compute from xAI and Google.

I'm sure AWS told Anthropic this was a bad idea, but now that OpenAI is on AWS, this doesn't really change AWS' competitive posture as much as it does for Anthropic. When OpenAI releases a similar model they will presumably not make this mistake, and we will switch our configs to the OAI models.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#255

Post by Eridrus »

jstummbillig wrote: post #147
calgoo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the servers i run this on sits in the EU. While the Cloud Act can and would effect this that is not the concern from corporate. If we as a company allow the data to be copied to other regions outside the EU then WE are not compliant with the rules and can be punished for it. That is what corporate is worried about. Just like we have a deal with OpenAI, but no documentation etc is allowed to be shared an…

That sounds like it's mostly just collective whitewashing, in face of essentially no guarantees when push comes to shove?

Yes, this whole kerfuffle is about contractual agreements between companies, not about governments.

I take my legal risk more seriously than I do people's paranoia about the NSA coming for them.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#257

Post by realusername »

chatmasta wrote: post #238
realusername wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to do that with EU laws, the data has to stay on EU servers. That might work in some countries but Anthropic approach here doesn't fit the legal requirements in the EU.

What if the data goes to Anthropic EU servers?

That could work but Anthropic doesn't look ready for that.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#258

Post by daft_pink »

dsign wrote: post #85

The root of the problem is that AI-as-a-service is corked, because companies providing it have a hell of an incentive to use all that data to out-compete their competitors, and they can do so in secret. To say nothing of salivating law-enforcement who really, really wants to tap into it. I'm hoping there will be at some point open-source and affordable hardware that can run competent models.

I was under the impression that a SOC 2 Type 2 audit requires the auditor to verify access, so if you are purchasing a paid/business version from a top 3 vendor (Anthropic, Google, OpenAI) it is SOC 2 Type 2 and any SOC 2 Type 2 service has to maintain access logs and have an independent auditor validate that data isn't being accessed or used against the rules?

Essentially, this is why AWS is reporting this to begin with.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#259

Post by gspr »

dsign wrote: post #85

The root of the problem is that AI-as-a-service is corked, because companies providing it have a hell of an incentive to use all that data to out-compete their competitors, and they can do so in secret. To say nothing of salivating law-enforcement who really, really wants to tap into it. I'm hoping there will be at some point open-source and affordable hardware that can run competent models.

Indeed. And we have to remember what it is that authorities and others are tapping into here: the human thought process.

I've said it before and I say it again: nomatter where you stand on generative AI's usefulness, you are crazy for putting your last private space – your thoughts – in the hands of someone other than you. Going further down this line will not end well.

Re: AWS Bedrock to require sharing data with Anthropic for Mythos and future models

#260

Post by bobdvb »

JeremyNT wrote: post #132
dsign wrote: post #85

The root of the problem is that AI-as-a-service is corked, because companies providing it have a hell of an incentive to use all that data to out-compete their competitors, and they can do so in secret. To say nothing of salivating law-enforcement who really, really wants to tap into it. I'm hoping there will be at some point open-source and affordable hardware that can run competent models.

It's all extremely dystopian and I don't see how things improve. The handful of megacorps that have access to the compute and troves of stolen IP to train their secret models on have no incentive to contribute back. They say their models are too dangerous for the public, so they can nerf the GA versions while allowing only their preferred megacorp or nation state partners access to the real secret good versions. We c…

What's interesting about the rise of the mega weight models is that if you look at the smaller models of the same family you see some significant improvements over time. So there's possibly some trickle down, at least some learning from techniques that is improving things across all model classes.

The other interesting one is how some of the Chinese open weights models have changed licenses that prevent some commercial exploitation of them. That's not closing their doors, but it's some steps towards ensuring their business model is protected.

Post reply on HN