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American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

economist.com

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Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#251

Post by andsoitis »

analognoise wrote: post #234
andsoitis wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wealth inequality Can you explain what is wrong with people having different levels of wealth? Or asked differently, if it is bad, should every individual have the exact same wealth?

Yes, this is easy to explain. It creates a country nobody is willing to fight for. Beyond certain levels of inequality, you get systemic dysfunction. Beyond a certain point, having a country where teeth are “luxury bones” and you have people putting off healthcare items due to cost isn’t sustainable. We’re past that point, and need to cut the rich down multiple pegs.

> Beyond a certain point, having a country where teeth are “luxury bones” and you have people putting off healthcare items due to cost isn’t sustainable. We’re past that point, and need to cut the rich down multiple pegs.

Concur that poverty should be eradicated and that overt time the minimum bar for what qualifies what each human deserves/needs rises. However, that's orthogonal to wealth inequality.

It is not impossible to have huge wealth spectrum and no poverty. Conversely, it is not uncommon throughout the ages for societies to have little wealth inequality but extreme poverty.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#252

Post by srean »

WalterBright wrote: post #248
srean wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, no way you can claim that. Let's take a Principal Engineer. A bad choice to make my case with, because among others, they do pay rather well. For a Principal Engineer, it is sort of a job requirement at that level to save or generate of the order of ~100 million dollars per year. An outsourced engineer sees nowhere near 1/10th that amount in his/her salary. For non software engineers it's much worse.

If engineers produce 10x what they cost, there'd be a huge gold rush hiring them.

I know, right ? But there isn't.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#253

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #247
fragmede wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich man, PAC advertising

Political advertising has no effect on my vote. Does it affect yours? Consider that Hillary outspent Trump 2:1 in the 2016 election, and lost. Same story in 2024, Trump was way outspent by Harris. Harris lost. Advertising doesn't work if the message is bad.

> Political advertising has no effect on my vote. Does it affect yours?

Oddly, basically everyone says this about advertising in general, and yet it consumes approx 3% of world GDP.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#254

Post by WalterBright »

fragmede wrote: post #227
WalterBright wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

https://muskdeathcount.com/

I've seen these figures all over the map.

The deaths of people in other countries are the result of their corrupt and evil governments, not Musk.

> 1,045,803 people

Amazing how specific it is! Come on, dude.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#255

Post by WalterBright »

fragmede wrote: post #220
WalterBright wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a summary of Piketty's argument? We could start off with how are you worse off because of people wealthier than you?

I'm not worse off, just because some chucklefuck has a yacht or a jet. I'm worse off when their wealth lets them out bid me for things that are scarce. Housing is currently in short supply in in-demand areas. Access to doctors is another one. The rich still only get one vote, but let's be real, being rich means buying tons of ads pushing a rich person's agenda in the run up to an election. Also tax codes. The rich ge…

I already pointed out that housing shortages are caused by government policy.

See Palisades, for example.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#256

Post by wakaru44 »

wvenable wrote: post #185
WalterBright wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy something you think is not worth the money.

Let me more specific. I am talking about wealth that is generated by capturing value from existing assets, transactions, and people rather than by producing new goods, services, or productivity gains. Examples are rent-seeking (making money through ownership, monopoly power, licensing, etc), financial extraction (financial manipulation, speculation, debt, and asset appreciation), housing and land appreciation, middle…

They seem to be making an effort to not understand.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#257

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #161
saulapremium wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not always the result, very far from it. You seem to believe that society is just the natural state of things, and "government" is almost just in the way. It's an incredible blindness to the privilege you enjoy.

The proper role of government is to protect people from thieves and murderers and externalities and provide national defense. I am not an anarchist. > privilege you enjoy Privileges anyone enjoys living in the United States. That's why millions are always trying to come here.

> The proper role of government is to protect people from thieves and murderers and externalities and provide national defense.

This is a 19th century regalian viewpoint (which is fine). Taken to its logical conclusion, education and healthcare services should not be provided by the government. I think that this is a wildly unpopular viewpoint, and is really unlikely to lead to good outcomes in our kind of society.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#258

Post by stopping »

WalterBright wrote: post #246
stopping wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term you're looking for is "surplus". The consumer sees a surplus of value because the price they paid is below the maximum they're willing to pay, and the producer sees a surplus because the price they charged was more than the cost to produce the good. In this economic system both parties benefit. Economic surplus is the thing that is "created" with every transaction. "Surplus accumulation" as a concept doesn't…

What's your definition of wealth?

Why are you asking? My hope is that you are asking this genuinely from a place of curiosity to better advance this discussion, as there is apparent confusion from people working from different definitions of the same word.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#259

Post by illiac786 »

WalterBright wrote: post #196
illiac786 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth inequality leads to lots and lots of power concentrated in a few people. That’s the problem. It’s a money aristocratic system, and that’s really bad for anyone not belonging to the aristocracy. And if they continue on this path, we might see heads roll.

1 man, 1 vote.

So your are saying money has no influence on politics? Really?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#260

Post by illiac786 »

WalterBright wrote: post #247
fragmede wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich man, PAC advertising

Political advertising has no effect on my vote. Does it affect yours? Consider that Hillary outspent Trump 2:1 in the 2016 election, and lost. Same story in 2024, Trump was way outspent by Harris. Harris lost. Advertising doesn't work if the message is bad.

Depends on your definition of a bad message. A lie can be very palatable.
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