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Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

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Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#251

Post by the_af »

BoredPositron wrote: post #246
the_af wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and I did whenever we assumed the pixels were an upload of a digitized photo taken with an actual camera of, say, a historical event, or something in nature (e.g. some rare bird), a birthday party, etc. The photo could be staged (e.g. Cottingley Fairies), it could be altered physically (like cutting or painting over, e.g. Stalin), it could be cropped intentionally to tell a different story (plenty of examples), a…

Photoshop is older then the web...

Where did I mention the web?

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#252

Post by the_af »

bonoboTP wrote: post #223
the_af wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI media generation is a red herring, the main thing is tracking, ID verification, constant social credit-like ratings, etc. That's what is coming. It can be both things. I worry about tracking and the post-truth world of everything fake and AI slop infiltrating everything. And like the person you're arguing with is saying, just because slop/fakery was possible before doesn't mean the widespread scale that AI and t…

It's the same walled garden principle. Benevolent Google will protect you from synthetic media by embedding invisible watermarks, from malicious apps by blocking sideloading, from porn by ID verification, etc etc. It's the same principle.

> It's the same walled garden principle

As I said, it can be both things, both bad.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#253

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

Planktonne wrote: post #250
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no discussion. your opinion on the matter is irrelevant, same as mine. genai will be misused in every way imaginable, and there's nothing anyone can do about this. no regulations, no laws, nothing will stop it now. for fuck's sake, Photoshop existed for how many years now? you would be a fool to trust any random photo to be genuine at any point in time. yes, yes, yes, back then only the people who had spent…

None of that is relevant to the conversation; it is genuinely like you are pasting from a random discussion a decade ago. We're not talking about Photoshop, because it's not a parallel here. We're not talking about trust in authenticity. These are points you have plucked from the ether. Please reread my earlier comments.

it is very much relevant to the conversation because your assertion about this tool being harmful and unethical is rooted in your misguided belief that generative fakes that can fool a grandma on facebook are somehow worse than man-made fakes that can fool anyone.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#254

Post by digitaltrees »

b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #199
digitaltrees wrote: post #124

Why? Don’t do this. Society is built on an implicit assumption of trust. You will erode the foundation that enables any success you might have in the short term.

>Why? Don’t do this. Society is built on an implicit assumption of trust. You will erode the foundation that enables any success you might have in the short term. would you say the same thing about a ROT13 breaker, or would you recognize how laughably naive that sounds?

I have no idea what a Rot13 breaker is and dont care that you think advocating for an ethical posture in what the tech industry builds is naive. Its naive to think bullies wont be in a kids playground. Its also naive to think we just need to accept that rather than creating norms around the type of play that is acceptable so that the playground functions.

AI generated images have never existed before, they will break our ability to use the digital tools we have built society on if we let them. Ensuring they can be identified and have attribution tracing data embedded is a reasonable step to prevent abuse.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#255

Post by digitaltrees »

vasco wrote: post #148
digitaltrees wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watermarks exists to create a chain of custody or attribution that can be used to establish culpability. Just like the government requires printer companies to add a dot matrix watermark to printed pages to prevent currency forgery. Making untraceable assets means parties can’t be held liable for harms. Just because a bad actor might poison a toddler doesn’t mean you should sell them the arsenic. Just because the eff…

What is it with people that take your position that they always need to bring children to the discussion? Where's the watermark in an IKEA knife?

Is an ikea knife infinitely replicable, distributable and capable of undermining the entire social fabric of a community? No. so these are not the same category of threat potential.

Further, an ikea knife used in a crime can be traced back to the criminal through other evidence like finger prints, surveillance cameras, purchase receipts etc.

Arguments that have a emotional component, especially related to our evolutionary instinct to take care of kids has a way of avoiding the rationalizations people adopt to justify otherwise indefensible behavior.

You also dont do yourself any favors in a bad argument that lumps me in with some unknown group of people rather tan responding to my argument.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#256

Post by eleventen »

ShreyashM17 wrote: post #228

Isn't this wrong? like removing AI watermarks, people like make morphed images using AI, and then use something like this, and claim it to be real

How you use the tool matters, yes. But the freedom to demonstrate and understand this weakness with watermarks is much more important to exercise than saying "shhhhh don't tell people about this".

The takeaway should be that watermarks aren't very reliable and you should keep your guard up anyway.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#257

Post by the_af »

hurril wrote: post #211
the_af wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would even go as far as to say that you pirates are the reason I have to have a DRM I think this is largely an incorrect take. DRM is anti consumer, not anti piracy. In fact, it has done very little to deter actual piracy (and remember it only takes ONE person to break the DRM), while affecting some casual pirates and all legitimate users. In the process, they got rid of reselling stuff you own. It's anticonsumer…

Would the DRM exist without piracy?

> Would the DRM exist without piracy?

I think so, because their main goal is to prevent unwanted use of the digital product -- to the detriment of end users -- in more ways than just piracy. In fact, they don't solve the piracy issue.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#258

Post by array_key_first »

transcriptase wrote: post #72
j2kun wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building a tool that tries (and probably fails) to remove the watermark (due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win) is tacitly accepting the barcode. The hacker ethos should be, first and foremost, to run open source models locally without relying on a corporation.

>due to the arms race that large corporate machines will win Much like how the entirety of Hollywood, book publishers, academic publishers, and game developers have won against piracy despite being some of the largest corps on earth and dedicating untold billions to the issue over the past 30 years?

They did win for a while because they stamped out 99% of piracy. In the early days of streaming it was legitimately difficult to argue for piracy. Streaming was just too convenient and too cheap.

But, they are greedy above all else. And so, we are once again seeing a resurgence of piracy. Large corporations seem to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Re: Remove-AI-Watermarks – CLI and library for removing AI watermarks from images

#259

Post by madrox »

For better or worse, I think the future has to be showing warnings on images with no C2PA-like watermarking like we do for insecure web sites. Media can be signed by authors. If the Associated Press sign an image, I can feel more confidence in its authenticity than the next decade's InfoWars. Power users can still choose to ignore it, but standardizing UX around trust sources like we do TLS will save the less savvy among us.

I don't think we've even seen the full brutal force of disinformation that we are capable of yet.

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