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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#251

Post by skrtskrt »

fragmede wrote: post #152
bigfishrunning wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your margins are so razor thin that the cost of handling cash is significant, you need to raise your prices. Cash is legal tender -- not accepting it for in-person transactions is really shitty (maybe shouldn't be allowed?)

You can't go into a store with a gun and demand the cash out of the register if there is no cash.

The actual cost is shrinkage from general human accounting mistakes and all the extra time it takes to manage.

I worked at the gym in college and we sold like one item a day and it was still a whole bunch of work and pain to keep up on the cash counts correct.

I definitely believe that all businesses should take cash as much as is reasonable, but logistically it is understandable why some choose not to

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#252

Post by willis936 »

throwway120385 wrote: post #239
drnick1 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, but in practice I think the only way onboard data could be exfiltrated is by a dealer while the car is being serviced. If you DIY or hire an independent mechanic, this seems unlikely.

Or by the FBI, NSA, CIA, DHS, or some other interested entity.

If a TLA is interested in you then you don't need to worry about a data log in your car.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#253

Post by ssl-3 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #208
mdasen wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> electric-drivetrain with onboard gasoline generator Generally speaking, it's more efficient to power a car using a series-parallel hybrid system than an electric drivetrain with generator (series hybrid) while not really being any more complicated. In a series hybrid (electric with generator), you're losing energy converting the rotational energy into electric energy. It's better to use the engine's output to power…

> Automatic Emergency Braking is going to be required in the US in 2029 (detecting frontal crashes about to happen and automatically braking, including pedestrian detection). I'm never going to want to drive a car that has that.

I guess you know your cutoff date, then. My own perspective differs.

A couple of years ago, I was involved in a stupid car crash that probably would have been prevented by this kind of system. Everyone was pretty much OK (yay), but both vehicles were ruined. And for me, at least, it was a complete and utter pain in the ass to find something else to drive that fit my intended use.

0/10. Would rather be annoyed by false positives.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#254

Post by throwway120385 »

tclancy wrote: post #209
chzblck wrote: post #46

I cannot imagine the paranoia that it would take for me to go through this process.

Step 1. Be very, very single When I was a younger man, audio visual forums used to have an unfortunately sexist, but fairly good conceptual measure they called “wife acceptance factor”. It should really just be partner acceptance factor. Regardless of whom you are with, I hope they would physically intervene before letting you do this. What is the point? All of these posts feel like they miss the forest for the trees…

What are you talking about? People sell used cars with broken stuff all the time. You don't have to tell the buyer that you intentionally broke that feature. The mechanics that I use would all consider this modification entirely reasonable and not say anything about it after you explained yourself.

Also my spouse is just as paranoid as this guy is and when I told her what new vehicles collect she was happy she had an older model car. So this is not really a thing.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#255

Post by ywain »

dotancohen wrote: post #248
ezfe wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does produce a local Wi-Fi network but there's no evidence that it supports internet communication. That would be considered a hotspot, which not all carriers even support.

How does the carrier know that the traffic is being proxied for another device, and not e.g. requested from the phone's web browser or another app? Does the phone add a proxy header? Can it be configured to not add the header?

Mostly by looking at packets TTL. It gets decreased by 1 by the hotspot’s NAT so if the value is something like 63 or 127 (instead of 64 or 128 which are the defaults for most platforms) then it’s almost certain the packet originated from a device behind the phone and not from the phone itself.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#256

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rkagerer wrote: post #130
nurple wrote: post #5

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB. The problem with this is that both carplay and android auto capture their o…

Is there any information about precisely what vehicle telemetry they capture and retain? I know the laws are far from perfect, but isn't there some legislation compelling them to disclose what they collect? What specifically would be the most relevant law/regulation? (If it varies by geography, pick any major market, eg. California, that is big enough to impact their engineering design and the content of published ma…

GDPR should work to get a copy of the data, also it would only be allowed to be collected with explicit permission -- I'm assuming that data about your car is PII about you.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#259

Post by zakisaad »

ezfe wrote: post #176
stuckindoors wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When reading the article I think he appears to be talking about car play/android auto connection not audio only connections. I think Bluetooth in AA and Carplay is used to configure a local network between the phone and the car to transmit the images to the cars screen. I would assume that that data capability can also be used for the car to communicate with the Internet.

It does produce a local Wi-Fi network but there's no evidence that it supports internet communication. That would be considered a hotspot, which not all carriers even support.

I've never understood how this can be limited in practice: surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same (unless there are identifiers on the traffic coming from hotspotted devices via the mobile device). Here in Australia we've never had any form of hotspot detection/segmentation - if you have a data plan, all data features work (across all carriers). I do recall lots of online chatter from the US though, especially years back when mobile data was more of a precious resource.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#260

Post by svens_ »

dotancohen wrote: post #248
ezfe wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does produce a local Wi-Fi network but there's no evidence that it supports internet communication. That would be considered a hotspot, which not all carriers even support.

How does the carrier know that the traffic is being proxied for another device, and not e.g. requested from the phone's web browser or another app? Does the phone add a proxy header? Can it be configured to not add the header?

There might be multiple methods and heuristics, but one way that I have encountered was based on packet TTL.

Android and Linux use 64 by default - the block could be circumvented by setting the laptop to use 65 TTL.

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