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Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#251

Post by ibaikov »

Petersipoi wrote: post #247

I don't care if my 3d printer is "open" any more than I care if my refrigerator is "open". I get that for a lot of you it's a hobby that you want a dedicate a lot of time to, upgrading, hacking, etc.. which is great. But for me, I just want something that prints when I need it to print. The fewer minutes per month that I have to spend thinking about or interacting with my 3d printer, while still getting great prints,…

Your fridge became dependent on updates. Then they added ads to front panel. Then they'll say that you need a subscription to use holiday mode. Then it no longer receives update and touch panel stops working because it can't connect to servers and you'll need to buy a new one or buy an upgraded touch panel for $99 instead of $199 if you'll buy it this week.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#252

Post by wolvoleo »

kn100 wrote: post #30

Full disclosure: I've never owned a Bambu because I've never loved the idea of a "closed" ecosystem 3D printer, however I have used them, and am very familiar with the 3d printing space beyond Bambu. For anyone considering alternatives: You should know that almost all other 3D printers expect you to know a little more about how they actually work than Bambus. Bambus are as close as you can get to a "just works" type…

I don't think Prusa and Bambu compare well. Prusa printers aren't as cleanly designed as Bambu and they are more than twice the price. I consider them really poor value for money. And Bambu printers aren't clones. The AMS is something they came up with.

Also, Prusa copy from Bambu too. Like their own material switcher (much less sophisticated than the AMS) and the new Core printer is really more a Bambu copy than the other way around, honestly. In fact other brands are copying Bambu too.

I really like them, they are fair to me as a consumer. Spare parts are cheap, there's no consumable restrictions or subscriptions for their cloud service.

And they're really as plug and play as you can get right now. I don't really need that, I've owned printers since the first generation so I know how to deal with issues. But really they happen rarely. The worst I get is stuck filament in the AMS and I found I can prevent that by removing the bit of filament with gear bite marks after it's been through. It absorbs more water then and gets brittle.

Also I've learned from earlier printers not to mix materials in the same nozzle so I switch them too.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#253

Post by Barbing »

Petersipoi wrote: post #247

I don't care if my 3d printer is "open" any more than I care if my refrigerator is "open". I get that for a lot of you it's a hobby that you want a dedicate a lot of time to, upgrading, hacking, etc.. which is great. But for me, I just want something that prints when I need it to print. The fewer minutes per month that I have to spend thinking about or interacting with my 3d printer, while still getting great prints,…

>I don't care if my 3d printer is "open"

Yet! Enshittification is a given, even if not premeditated. Finding open solutions now is proper planning.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#254

Post by miki123211 »

9cb14c1ec0 wrote: post #141

This sentence in Bambu Lab's blog post is wild: > We have documented incidents of service outages caused precisely by spikes in unauthorized traffic - overwhelming the servers, causing service disruptions affecting everyone. The cost was instability felt by all users. So it's a problem that their printers are popular, and they can't be bothered to scale their infra, so let's gate everything based on USER AGENT STRING…

A conspiracy-theory steelmanning interpretation of that statement is that Bambu thinks that some unscrupulous Chinese manufacturer is performing DDoS attacks against them, but can't fully and publicly admit to that for legal reasons.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#255

Post by BoredPositron »

cassianoleal wrote: post #53
kn100 wrote: post #30

Full disclosure: I've never owned a Bambu because I've never loved the idea of a "closed" ecosystem 3D printer, however I have used them, and am very familiar with the 3d printing space beyond Bambu. For anyone considering alternatives: You should know that almost all other 3D printers expect you to know a little more about how they actually work than Bambus. Bambus are as close as you can get to a "just works" type…

Prusa are pretty much plug and play these days, especially the Core One line-up. You're right that they're expensive but you get free human support 24x7, you get an open platform, lots of contributions to open source (even Bambu Studio is a fork of Prusa Slicer), and they pretty much go on forever. My Core One+ started its life as an original MK3 and went through each iteration of upgrades, and it works like new. I'm…

I am still a bit iffy about the whole sending out fleets of 100s of printers to influencers during the pandemic while also increasing the price for their entry lineup.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#256

Post by xp84 »

Larrikin wrote: post #51
capitangolo wrote: post #2

I honestly don't get it. They have more to win by doing things right than with this crap they pull out . Never getting a Bambulab.

Some managers are fine screwing power users when they feel they are big enough. I will never buy a Chamberlain garage door opener for their similar stance against the Home Assistant community

Same! I was burned by Chamberlain, twice. In my case I had bought a $40 retrofit device (it connected to the MyQ cloud and simply used RF to emulate a remote to open any brand of opener).

First, there was their debacle where they broke HA connectivity just for fun, meaning I couldn't use HA or Apple HomeKit anymore. Then, after a pretty routine reset of the opener (I needed to clear out some old remotes and re-learn them) I found that in some recent update of the 'app' or whatever, they'd deleted my brand of opener from their supported list, due to some IP dispute of some kind, leaving it unable to learn the same remote it had learned the year before. So, as peeved as I had been to have to use their ad-laden app, the myQ device itself was completely useless to me.

Never again.

Irony is I just moved to a house with a brand new MyQ cloud-connected door. I bought a RatGDO anyway and will never buy any of the devices in the myQ ecosystem, even though some look attractive. Closed system on purpose = never buy.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#257

Post by zgoscenka »

Petersipoi wrote: post #247

I don't care if my 3d printer is "open" any more than I care if my refrigerator is "open". I get that for a lot of you it's a hobby that you want a dedicate a lot of time to, upgrading, hacking, etc.. which is great. But for me, I just want something that prints when I need it to print. The fewer minutes per month that I have to spend thinking about or interacting with my 3d printer, while still getting great prints,…

The issue is not that they sell 3d printers with proprietary software. The issue is altering the deal _after_ you have purchased the printer. People bought a printer that was open. Then suddenly the company changed their mind and pushed an update that made it non open. And when people try to restore the software to the state it was when bought, the company fights such attempts with dmca requests. If I bought something it's mine and I can do whatever I want with it and run whatever software I want on it.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#258

Post by kube-system »

p-e-w wrote: post #11

> Some people are okay with using OrcaSlicer and printing through Bambu's cloud. It's convenient if you're on the road and want to start a print on your printer at home Do such people really exist? Are there actually people who are comfortable blindly starting a robot in their home, with a part that heats to 150 C, and then hope that everything will work out and when they get home the part will be waiting for them, i…

I would have never done this 10 years ago with the garbage printers that were pieced together like science projects rather than finished products.

But a modern enclosed bambu printer is a much better engineered device. Bambu is mature enough as a company that they've issued formal recalls for device issues before. This would never happen with the aliexpress specials that used to dominate the market.

Bambu printers (and other reputable modern printers) are being run unattended at scale all the time without issue.

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#259

Post by miki123211 »

pimterry wrote: post #195
dwroberts wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IIRC, you only had to change one setting on the printer itself, and optionally block the printer from Internet access via the firewall to prevent automatic firmware updates and telemetry Why do you have to do that on a product you own that is running in your home?

Because (like every IoT product) Bambu want to sell a product with an easy app-powered workflow, and LAN device discovery and remote-access for home devices from mobile apps is flaky and terrible. I wouldn't be surprised if they're slurping telemetry en route, and it's convenient for them that using their app helps nudge you towards Makerworld (their ecosystem for 3d prints, which is presumably good marketing) but I…

Not to mention the fact that some people think of WiFi and cellular data as "things that give me access to the internet". The understanding of what a private IP address is and why it can't be reached from a cellular connection is just not there.

Others want to control their IoT when they're not at home or not in WiFi range (they may not even notice the latter). You can do it with a VPN, or perhaps port forwarding if you're lucky enough to have access to your router and no carrier-grade NAT, but that's even harder to set up.

3d printer users are more sophisticated than most, but I can imagine some artsy types owning them, as well as the kind of people who are very comfortable with a drill, soldering iron and a jackhammer, but who treat a computer as "that God-damned machine I need to use to buy the parts I need."

Re: Bambu Lab is abusing the open source social contract

#260

Post by scottbez1 »

harrall wrote: post #166
scottbez1 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction is one of many signals, and it’s better than ignoring pushback, but it’s still usually worse than not needing the correction in the first place. Sure, a manufacturer that didn’t need to course correct yet doesn’t mean they won’t change their stance in the future, but the same is true for one that already course-corrected. We see this with privacy eroding laws continually - legislators will “listen” and cou…

I actually disagree. Someone who isn’t racist because they grew up in a progressive family just means they were lucky. They often have never been tested under pressure. On the other hand, someone who grew up in a racist family and ends up not racist means their beliefs are battle tested. This is a real test of character — it also tells me how they process information. What you’re describing is a third case where some…

You are conflating two things: appeasement and actual change in principles. Externally it can be hard to distinguish these, but it is easier to get a sense of it with more signals.

From Bambu’s historical and continued actions, specifically including the orca slicer actions that this blog post was about, there is additional signal that LAN mode backpedaling was more likely an appeasement action than a shift in principles to embrace a more open ecosystem.

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