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BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

electrek.co

251–260 of 467 posts

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#251

BYD has to me become an icon of US decline vs Chinese expansion. It’s just one example among many of China charting the way forward and innovating while the US recedes further into backward-looking, protectionist policy. See: US politicians on both sides trying to ban BYD imports rather than incentivizing stiffer competition from US automakers. Another example: massive growth in Chinese renewables while the US opens…

I was glued to the window while flying over southern China recently. There is so much infrastructure you can see from the air, even in fairly rural provinces. So many bridges. So many wind turbines. It is visibly a country on the move, a country that believes in itself and its ability to do things. The Chinese Century is increasingly palpable, for better or worse.

On the move to where? Massive unemployment amongst youth and population collapse is on its way.

You are projecting a fantasy.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#252

I just signed an offer to purchase a BYD Sealion 5, plugin hybrid small-to-medium SUV. I’ve been largely happy with my 2018 Honda Fit and briefly researched a hybrid Fit. In ZAR, the hybrid Fit is listed as ~530K, while the BYD is 570, however the BYD is way bigger, has much nicer interior and insanely more features, including: adaptive cruise control, lane assist (it can basically drive itself for simple traffic), 3…

I was thinking why the hell someone visiting HN, so arguably curious and interested in technology, would go for a PHEV but then you mentioned South Africa.

It advertises 52km range, which is plenty enough for us for day-to-day driving to be entirely in EV mode.

I work from home and would prefer spending money on things like better school for kids, holidays, house being comfortable and as paid off as possible than on an over priced car as some sort of status symbol (it’s common for people here to choose to spend a fortune on their cars while living in small rented apartments, it’s quite financially stupid).

I also believe that we pay comparatively high taxes on our motor vehicles, our location probably also means that shipping here just costs more, the Sealion 5 is ZAR 570K which is about EUR 29.6K / USD 34.8K

Edit: Seems Sealion 5 price here not necessarily high compared to other countries. It might be BYD “entering the market” and thus putting less of a markup. Hyundai did that here in the early 2010s, but China is a different beast so who knows.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BYD has to me become an icon of German decline vs Chinese expansion. My view. I was looking at a new car. Went into several car shops, VW, Skoda, Toyota and BYD. And all of them were basically empty and BYD was FULL! Like really really full. And the sales guy confirmed it, they are selling cars like crazy.

Which country was this in?

Well.. Germany :)

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#254

BYD has to me become an icon of US decline vs Chinese expansion. It’s just one example among many of China charting the way forward and innovating while the US recedes further into backward-looking, protectionist policy. See: US politicians on both sides trying to ban BYD imports rather than incentivizing stiffer competition from US automakers. Another example: massive growth in Chinese renewables while the US opens…

Many predicted it for a long time, the US will always be a great power, for structural and geographical reasons, but it won't keep the position it had for almost a century.

The good thing about China is that apart from Taiwan they have little territoral ambitions, I don't foresee huge conflicts incoming, but I am a not entirely sure the US will manage to lost its position as gracefully as the British Empire.

It could be bad news for US citizens if their currency precipitiously lose its power, and they'll look for people to blame.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#255
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, more to the point, BYD exists because the CCP has been aggressively protectionist of its domestic companies and has been strongly involved in growing, supporting, and protecting its domestic industry to ensure it has one. BYD is not a cautionary tale about protectionism, it's a sales pitch for it.

Hasn’t the US been equally so, including the auto company bailouts, government fleet purchases restricted to US-made vehicles, US national moves to secure supply chain inputs for the auto makers, etc.? The main difference that I see isn’t protectionism, it’s that BYD took a direction the market wanted, whereas US auto makers have not produced vehicles that were appealing to consumers who had choices.

BYD's direction was largely at the behest of the Chinese government, who were willing to demand things of BYD in exchange for that protectionism, instead of wringing their hands and saying "nothing you can do about the market" while simultaneously propping up industries of national strategic significance.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, different kinds of protectionism. The CCP's protectionism is because China is going for a cultural victory. It wants Chinese products to be available and inexpensive and purchased around the world. It puts resources to that end. The US's protectionism is for the enrichment of the CEO, board members, stockholders, and Executive Branch's family members. It wants to protect the domestic market from sending money s…

It is just sad that commentary like this even exists. I sincerely am curious of the education that produces sentences like this. On one hand it is articulate and educated, on the other hand its amazing that one can think China is doing this out of charity and not wiping out its competitors one after the other.

I don't read that as doing it out of charity. A cultural victory is still a victory. China is very much playing to win.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shanghai was great in the 2010s. Seems like a different place today. Are the bullet trains making enough to pay down construction debt yet? My understanding is that that has been a struggle, which is going to be a problem when they get past being new and start having more and more maintenance expense on top of paying back construction debt.

They dont have to, they are reqired to make the country work. Its like trying to make us roads profitable.

Or having some silly notion that the post service should be profitable.

Public services generally provide public good that outweighs their cost. Trying to quantify and charge for that cost is a useless exercise.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same vein, it’s reasonable to take a foreigner’s view with a grain of salt. For all its impressive progress, China doesn’t show off its problems. The “West” had the same problem many times during the first Cold War, where things in the Soviet Union seemed really great from the outside. Only after the collapse did the truth become clear. Now, I don’t think China is even remotely similar, but never forget that i…

In the US it's practically a right of passage to be a young adult and very vocally hate the country, hate the government. In China you don't have a life in front of you if you do that.

>In the US it's practically a right of passage to be a young adult and very vocally hate the country, hate the government.

Well, unless ICE murders you at a protest for expressing your hate of the government's actions.

>In China you don't have a life in front of you if you do that.

That's very much not true. China isn't North Korea like Westerners imagine. Unless you riot, take to the streets, or become a big agitator or dissident, Chinese government and media actually does allow some controlled escape valves for regular people to vent about problems, no issue with that. This isn't Stalin's reign of terror.

You'll only get disappeared if you end up becoming a big fish to threaten the CCP, like Jack Ma, but otherwise the CCP don't end disappearing every schmuck who complains about the government.

You might not know this, but as a nation, you don't get very far economically, academically and technologically in the long run by consonantly oppressing your people under a culture of permanent fear of their government. You can't bleed a stone.

And China got where it is, due to its successful policies from the last half-century that brought prosperity and lifted millions of of poverty, it's government has earned a certain level of "buy-in" from the majority of the population, meaning the people are more likely to be cooperative and work with the totalitarian government towards a common set of mutually beneficial goals, rather than wasting their energy trying to mass emigrate out of the country or to fight for democracy.

And that's what so dangerous about this, because unlike the USSR who served in the west as THE model of inevitable failure for such systems, China found a successful form of totalitarian governance, that some western governments are now trying to copy when they saw how effective it is.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are also surprised how rural much of China is.

https://bigthink.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/origin.png Posting the map in case anyone hasn’t seen it.

Russia, US, Australia, Canada are all like this. Probably many more. The world is a very small place when you look at where most people actually live.

Re: BYD overtakes Tesla and Kia as the best-selling EV brand in key overseas markets

#260
post #192

Tesla has no moat. BYD makes better EVs & is leading in battery tech. FSD has been promised forever & not delivered. Now Musky says - for cars to have real FSD they need to be newer hardware tech. Robotaxis - Waymo is better.

> BYD ... is leading in battery tech.

Dang, it seemed not that long ago - 5 to 10 years - when Tesla had far superior battery tech. I know that isn't a short scale by tech standards but has BYD, and others, really leap-frogged that much?

I'm not in that space myself and do not keep up with EV benchmarks but am curious what advances or other changes were made. I recall reading Ford battery technology was also very good but interpreted that to be due to general advances in EV battery technology across the board rather than any one specific make/manufacturer.

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