Live data from Hacker News

UAE to leave OPEC

ft.com

251–260 of 750 posts

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#252
post #9

Is there an explainer on this? I'm not familiar with the geopolitics or oil cartels well enough to understand the implications here.

The basics are the same as any other cartel. OPEC states cover enough of the supply-side of the market to be able to keep prices artificially high. UAE leaving means UAE can price below OPEC's target and take more of the market. OPEC will have to react and lower prices or concede some of the market. Does any of this matter if the major players can't ship oil through Hormuz? Who knows...

The UAE is trying to expand its ability to ship oil through Fujairah, so this could potentially undermine both KSA/Iraq and Iran.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that unique historical, cultural, and even geographical factors have led to this outcome for Oman. I would encourage you to read up on the history of the country to understand the nuance here and not paint with such a broad brush.

Everyone has a unique "..." and a nuance here and a nuance there. UAE has a unique yada yada and also ended up with a surprisingly remarkably free economic index despite being a theocratic monarchy. As did the monarchy Lichtenstein, British controlled Hong Kong, and the one-party state of Singapore (technically democratic, in practice it functions like a recallable monarchy). Also of note the three richest countries…

    > one-party state of Singapore (technically democratic, in practice it functions like a recallable monarchy).
This is untrue. It would be more accurate to say that the same party has been in power since independence from the UK. Each election in the last 30 years has slowly moved the needle -- fewer and fewer of seats held by the majority party (PAP). I guess there will be a non-PAP prime minister in the next 20 years. Sure, it doesn't look like other democracies, but please don't call it one-party. Also: See Japan. Many outsiders just don't understand democracy in Japan and try to impose their worldview on a different type of democratic system.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#254

> The UAE's exit from OPEC represents a win for U.S. President Donald Trump, who in a 2018 address to the U.N. General Assembly accused the organisation of "ripping off the rest of the world" by inflating oil prices. I can't see how it is actually a win for Trump. OPEC has mostly been a big partner with the US. They are the ones that have mandated using the dollar as the baseline currency for buying and selling OPEC…

> I can't see how it is actually a win for Trump. OPEC has mostly been a big partner with the US. I mean, I don’t even know if I mean this sarcastically anymore, but are we sure that Trump and the US’ interests are aligned? I think something can be a win for Trump and a loss for the USA.

Majority of US voted for Trump. Maybe not aligned with your version of US, but this is what the majority wanted

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US petrodollar promise to protect UAE states from aggression in exchange for trade in USD could not be upheld Well the war is still ongoing, and Iran's regime is already feeling the pain of the blockade [1]. Pricing oil in Yuan because, I guess, the US is somehow not protecting the UAE doesn't make sense because China won't be there to protect them either. The US can just say, well fine you can sell your oil in…

> Pricing oil in Yuan because, I guess, the US is somehow not protecting the UAE doesn't make sense because China won't be there to protect them either. It is an admission that US protection was always a paper tiger. Perhaps in the 1960s it meant something, but Iran has shattered the illusion that Washington has any credible defense of the country. > The US can just say, well fine you can sell your oil in Yuan. But w…

> It is an admission that US protection was always a paper tiger. Perhaps in the 1960s it meant something, but Iran has shattered the illusion that Washington has any credible defense of the country.

sigh No, it's not. There are 3 aircraft carriers parked in the region, plus US air bases. Iran launched over 2500 missiles at the UAE alone. The US destroyed much of Iran's military, the only thing they have left is the ability to launch missiles and drones at ships or do terrorist style attacks.

But if you want to suggest that the US is a paper tiger here, that just makes everyone a paper tiger. Nobody can stop Iran. Ok.

> The UAE primarily sells its oil to China, which is its largest export partner, followed by countries like India and Japan. the United States cannot do this without not only obliterating energy markets for an ally, but strengthening alliances between china and india. It is likely that should the US attempt such a move, China would respond with retaliatory technology tariffs and a reduction of agricultural trade.

Then we would react with export controls, additional weapons shipments to allies in the region, work with Japan and South Korea to start weapons programs, blockade Chinese trade, there's a million things we can do too.

> the UAE did not "need protection" from any regional military threat until the United States used regional peace talks as cover to launch a surprise attack against Iran. the UAE would still likely be an OPEC member state had the US not unilaterally chosen to obliterate global energy markets for no consistent or clearly defined reason.

And yet, UAE wants the US in the region and in UAE soil. Iran launched over 2500 missiles at the UAE, including civilian targets. Not sure your comment here reflects reality.

> This conflict was well defined as geopolitical suicide for nearly forty years; its what kept the peace.

Things change. US is the #1 energy producing country in the world in terms of oil, gas, &c. We're less dependent on the Middle East, plus we've basically secured the Venezuelan oil supply. Seems to me that what was once geopolitical suicide is no longer the case. We're here today, and life in the US just goes on as normal.

> All simulations and tabletop exercises predicted such an incursion would send global energy markets into panic, trade markets into recession, and produce no meaningful advancement of either regional security or regime change.

TBD

> Iran is backed by powerful allies and has shown numerous times it can meet each US escalation with yet more regional attacks.

Yes, Iran, who is supplying Russia with drones and such for its war against Ukraine is an ally, as is China.

> We have tried escalation and failed, burned through a decade of advanced missiles fighting cheap drones, and have no defined objective politically or militarily for this conflict.

We have not burned through a decade of advanced missiles fighting cheap drones. We can build our own cheap drones and are working on scaling production, and just because you don't understand the political or military objective doesn't mean that there isn't one, however poorly or well-thought it may be.

The US has very much escalated and sits now at the top of the escalation ladder. Iran has been trying to get the US to the negotiating table due to the blockade. Iran can launch its missiles as it likes to at civilian targets in the Gulf. We + allies will just get better at shooting them down. Who cares? If Iran wants to try to escalate we'll just escalate further, blow up more stuff, keep the oil from flowing if we decide. It doesn't really hurt us much.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#256
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, respectfully, corporate propaganda. Consumers buy the vehicles that are available and advertised. It's in the best interest of manufacturers to convince/compel consumers to buy larger, more expensive vehicles with higher margins, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Bullshit. There are many competing auto manufacturers. No one is compelled to buy larger, more expensive vehicles. There are smaller, cheap vehicles available to those who want them. If I want a little penalty box like a Hyundai Elantra or Nissan Sentra the local dealers have base models in stock and ready to sell today. Larger vehicles are more comfortable, safe, and practical (for anyone who doesn't need to worry a…

Domestic manufacturers used to build & sell compact pickup trucks. Nowadays, the only pickups on the market are huge fatmobiles. The profit margin in trucks is much higher than the profit margin on passenger cars.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#257

Can somebody knowledgeable help me understand why this is in the interests of the UAE? Also, seems like a moot point since the strait is closed. Why do they think it’s in their best interests, and why now?

1) The UAE has its "Abu Dhabi Crude Oil Pipeline" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habshan%E2%80%93Fujairah_oil_p...) to Fujairah export terminal on the "Gulf of Oman" bypassing the choke-point of "Strait of Hormuz" entirely. Given the current blockade of the strait and its uncertain future, Fujairah is now central to crude oil shipments for the World Market.

2) Thus far, the UAE has been prevented from maximizing its revenues due to OPEC/OPEC+ production caps which is no longer acceptable due to global needs. It can now chart its own independent course by ramping up production and earn hard currency which can be its leverage against an uncertain future. For instance, UAE just signed a deal with South Korea to give it guaranteed "priority access" (meaning first before others) and "joint stockpiling" (for world market) of 24 million barrels. Other countries in Asia who have storage capabilities are also "tripping over each other" to cut similar deals with UAE. This is once-in-a-lifetime opportunity not to be missed.

3) Discontent with OPEC/OPEC+ and its members since the current conflict has made it clear that nobody will come to its aid when the chips are down (other than the US). It is "every man for himself" now and thus UAE has decided to chart its own independent path.

This is very welcome news and i hope other OPEC/OPEC+ members will also follow suit in their own national interests.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#258
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oman benefits significantly more from the war in Iran than the UAE, but is the most favorable country towards Iran in the GCC. See the visual here: https://archive.is/Xt3gd Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been urging the US to bomb Iran since 2015 for their own non-oil reasons. They see political Islamism as a strategic and domestic threat. That's why they had Qatar under a blockade for a number of years. Iran is their…

UAE's major issue with Saudis is their quiet support for Islamism as well. They know countries like Iran exploit for it like a wildcard which always backfires and destabilizes the region, which is bad for business.

    > UAE's major issue with Saudis is their quiet support for Islamism as well.
What is the meaning of "Islamism" here? GCC is something like 98-99% Muslim by native population. Also, Saudi Arabia is the home of the two most important masjids in the Islamic world.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#259
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean Chinese military vessels? Or do you mean oil tankers? Oil tankers don't require you to shoot you simply commandeer. If China were to involve its Navy in opening the straight that's exactly what Good outcome could look like

Or it could be Really Really Bad Outcome, let's not be too flippant about this. Out of curiousity, what's your good outcome from the Chinese sending destroyers to the gulf?

If the Chinese take on the burden of maintaining the free flow of shipping through the Gulf by stepping up as one of the key beneficiaries of said shipping that would simply be an appropriate burden sharing mechanism in my view.

Re: UAE to leave OPEC

#260
post #109

Geopolic: A US-aligned Gulf state walking away from a Saudi/Russia-led bloc in the middle of a war, after deciding the bloc didn’t really have its back Economic: it weakens OPEC’s pricing power in a way you might not see right away if Hormuz is closed, but it could really change the supply picture once things reopen

Is "polic" a word?
Post reply on HN