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Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#251

Post by ErroneousBosh »

hagbard_c wrote: post #46
brador wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know the dangers of second hand smoke. Someone drinking near you does not impact your health.

That is, until that person gets behind the wheel or on a (motor)bike and impacts you - and with that, your health - directly. Having said that I don't like the nanny society which acts like it knows better. People sometimes want to do stupid things and I think they should be able to do so. They should also not burden society with the consequences of their stupid actions so smokers either pay in more for health insura…

> That is, until that person gets behind the wheel or on a (motor)bike and impacts you - and with that, your health - directly.

Which is something weirdly North American - it's insane how okay USians are with drinking and driving considering how Puritanical they are about drinking generally.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#252

Post by OkayPhysicist »

gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

If they wanted to ban cigarettes, they should have banned cigarettes. The whole "let's pass a law that only affects people who can't vote" strategy applied here is tyranical.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#253

Post by scoofy »

Daviey wrote: post #246
scoofy wrote: post #243

My main problem with this is the "do as I say not as I do" intergenerational conflict. It just seems completely absurd to me that a government thinks it's acceptable to treat a generation unable to vote differently from the generations who can. It's really an absurd unfreedom and a kind of tyranny. Why not just pass a law that says people born after 2008 have to pay higher taxes, and work longer hours for less pay? P…

> Why not just pass a law that says people born after 2008 have to pay higher taxes, and work longer hours for less pay? People should be equal under the law. We already do this, the UK State Pension age is currently rising from 66 to 67 for those born on or after April 6, 1960. This change affects, for example, those born between April 1960 and March 1961, who will have a pension age of 66 plus a set number of month…

I mean, that's a practical and relatively small adjustment where the far-and-away majority of the voting populous are the people who are affected by the change. Yes, if you wanted to nitpick there, you could, there is a very small injustice there, but this is completely different.

My point here is that this is under 18s currently have no representation, and they're passing laws that will forever treat them as a kind of underclass, "for their own good." It's genuinely ridiculous that it's allowed to happen. In doing this, the UK -- for all it's progress a creating a mostly symbolic nobility -- will now allow a new kind of class system to emerge, where the young can be overtly dominated and discriminated against by the old. It's ridiculous. People should be equal under the law.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#254

Post by cucumber3732842 »

lokar wrote: post #232
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That seems appropriate. A small fraction of people cause most of the losses, they should pay more. Surely that was a satirical comment and was meant to be an illustrative example of exactly the sort of mindset that runs political cover for a system as it pivots from providing enough value to become entrenched to using that entrenched position to behave in an extractive manner. In my state if grandma gets pulled over…

I’ve never seen having an expired tag be a points violation, that seems very wrong. IME it’s only ever moving violations that impact safety. For that, higher rates are absolutely appropriate.

Safety inspection. It's a moving violation in this state (of course it wasn't initially, frogs are best boiled slow). That's the magic of it. Frame it as a "safety" issue and everyone who can't think critically about how that sausage might be made will knee jerk approve.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#255

Post by tgv »

MiiMe19 wrote: post #238
tgv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, smuggling lung cancer. How romantic.

> Stop doing things that hurt you !! You need to live your life like a min-max optimization for max lifespan. !! You haven't done your government mandated hour of exercise today, enjoy 30 days in prison !!

This wasn't even about that. It was about selling cigarettes to others, pretending to be a romantic rebel.

And freedom isn't absolute. There's no need to exaggerate 1984 style just because smoking is banned. You don't even have to stop smoking. You just can't start.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#256

Post by slibhb »

nutjob2 wrote: post #233
slibhb wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use this logic to ban unhealthy foods, or restrict people from eating too much.

This is just whataboutism, but the UK also regulates sugar in fairly draconian ways too, for example. There are good reasons to target smoking given how addictive and deadly it is. Nicotine is fairly unique in this regard.

It's reductio ad absurdum. Obesity is really bad for you and strains public health services. Should the government enforce a cap on caloric intake?

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#257

Post by OkayPhysicist »

jellyfishbeaver wrote: post #114

Can anyone attest if young people are actually taking up cigarettes again? I was talking with a friend that teaches teenagers and she was explaining how many students that once were getting in trouble for vaping/pouches have now turned on to cigarettes. Completely boggles my mind - I thought the newer generation had a much stronger aversion to physical cigarettes.

At least in my younger brother's social circles, cigarettes are considered the inferior, but sometimes more available, good. They're hooked on nicotine via vapes, but it's sometimes easier to get a hold of cigarettes. That doesn't mean they smoke nearly as many cigarettes as we'd be used to seeing from a smoker pre-vapes, since once they can refill/buy another disposable vape they'll preferentially use those.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#258

Post by MiiMe19 »

tgv wrote: post #255
MiiMe19 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop doing things that hurt you !! You need to live your life like a min-max optimization for max lifespan. !! You haven't done your government mandated hour of exercise today, enjoy 30 days in prison !!

This wasn't even about that. It was about selling cigarettes to others, pretending to be a romantic rebel. And freedom isn't absolute. There's no need to exaggerate 1984 style just because smoking is banned. You don't even have to stop smoking. You just can't start.

You WILL get your state mandated 1 hour of exercise everyday and you will eat your state mandated five servings of vegetables. You will not go outside for more than an hour a day to prevent skin cancer. If you were born after 2010, you will eat the state mandated bug-based red meat replacement. You don't even need to stop eating meat, you just can't start.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#259

Post by insane_dreamer »

Smoking is clearly harmful, but I'm not sure about laws that criminalize adults from deciding what they want to do with their own bodies. Health care costs are a factor, but I don't know about the UK but in the US these days, junk food and sodas probably incur more health care costs through obesity, than smoking.

What I do favor of is making cigarettes highly inaccessible -- i.e., restrict the sale to a very limited number of licensed locations, impose high taxes so they're very expensive. If it's still fairly widespread, raise the taxes even more. I think we should do the same with Coke /Pepsi/etc.

Re: Smoking ban for people born after 2008 in the UK agreed

#260

Post by mothballed »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #252
gcanyon wrote: post #16

There are two separate issues here: 1. will this work (will the UK stop smoking) 2. is this something the UK government should be doing Setting aside 1 and looking at 2, it seems silly to me to point out that other things (alcohol) that cause problems and are not being restricted. You take the wins where you find them, and the government isn't a magical force that can impose its will on the people arbitrarily. This i…

If they wanted to ban cigarettes, they should have banned cigarettes. The whole "let's pass a law that only affects people who can't vote" strategy applied here is tyranical.

The US did the same thing with cockfighting. It was already illegal in all the states, but they passed a federal law binding on all states and territories to stop Puerto Ricans (who had no such law against it), who have no meaningful federal representation.
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