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Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

asteriskmag.com

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Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#251
post #17

Really lovely article. In paramedicine we usually treat 10g of acetaminophen in a 24-hour window as a potentially fatal overdose. That's also why the law in Australia was changed to require acetaminophen to come in blister packs (harder to get each pill out) of no more than 16. At 500 mg, that only gets you up to 8 g if you eat the whole thing, which is still hopefully non-fatal. I always thought a simple over-the-co…

Similar rules in Europe, or at least, Portugal.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#252
post #212

> But if acetaminophen is safer, then why don’t official sources tell you that? Guess it depends on country. Here in Norway official sources[1][2] do say acetaminophen (paracetamol here) should be the default for treating fever and pain in kids, adults, pregnant women and elderly, and have for some time. Ibuprofen they say should be used with caution. [1]: https://www.dmp.no/nyheter/behov-for-smertestillende-slik-ve.…

In Ireland you can buy acetaminophen in stores, gas stations etc. For ibuprofen you need to go to a pharmacy.

That is interesting. In the UK they're both available pretty much everywhere, and they're some of the cheapest drug prices I've seen anywhere in the world... ~20p for 16 tablets or something.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#253

> But if acetaminophen is safer, then why don’t official sources tell you that? Guess it depends on country. Here in Norway official sources[1][2] do say acetaminophen (paracetamol here) should be the default for treating fever and pain in kids, adults, pregnant women and elderly, and have for some time. Ibuprofen they say should be used with caution. [1]: https://www.dmp.no/nyheter/behov-for-smertestillende-slik-ve.…

I feel like this is one of those things where Europe and the US are very different, culturally speaking - I've lived in the Netherlands, Germany and now Sweden, and the amount of painkillers used and prescribed here seems much lower than what Americans tell me is normal in the US. Pain a warning signal from the body. It's something one should listen to, not just try to ignore and overrule. If I sprain my ankle it onl…

Perdue Pharma/The Sacklers went on a huge campaign in the 90s convincing doctors and the general public that pain was bad and worth stopping at any cost and even though they were pushing opioids, I can imagine this also increased the cultural tendency to use NSAIDs as well.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#254
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen is better are reducing fever and managing headaches. Paracetamol is the safer version Phenacetin. You used to be able to buy aspirin, phenacetin and caffeine..but phenacetin with withdrawn. APC when it was marketed was very popular but soon you were told to never give children aspirin for a fever so we used Paracetamol. Then Phenacetin was withdrawn and paracetamol became part of APC (like Alka selzta XS ,…

Reminder: don't take medical advice from someone who can't write correctly.

Very interesting though that the original article makes no comment on efficacy. It's all about metabolic safety which is not contentious.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you pull this 5% from? There are gazillions of studies showing higher or lower efficacies for different kinds of pain. Along with the inaccuracies about Phenacetin (whose MOA is metabolising into paracetamol).

You will indeed find various figures for various pain types all are far worse than ibuprofen. Here is an example from the Cochrane library > For the IHS preferred outcome of being pain free at two hours the NNT for paracetamol 1000 mg compared with placebo was 22 (95% confidence interval (CI) 15 to 40) in eight studies (5890 participants; high quality evidence), with no significant difference from placebo at one hour…

"pain free" is a long way from the pain is manageable. Pain is an understudied subject, where we have too little knowledge. Just using the word manageable is an indication of this.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Good for fever"? Only ignorant consumers would attempt to counteract the body's very own defenses against infection and disease. Yes, ignorant consumers and physicians across the world. You can't just 'vibe medicine' or 'vibe biology' - please don't comment if you don't know what you're talking about.

Someone with a basic understanding of evolution and biology understands that evolution will take any free lunch it can get. The vast majority of the time medicine can only ever help with (acute) symptoms and rarely the underlying cause unless it is something like vaccines or antibiotics. Medicine has side effects because if there was a free lunch to be obtained from medicine, the human body would have synthesized the…

This is a good argument, but it has a flaw here, which is that a systemic fever during illness may still be an evolutionarily beneficial adaption on average if there are a some situations where it can be the difference between life and death, e.g. bacterial pneumonia or sepsis, but that doesn't mean it's equally useful for all types of illness.

I did a fevered research dive last time I had the flu and came to the conclusion that there wasn't really any good evidence that fever is helpful for flu, and I should have few compunctions about suppressing it. (And that most of the situations where fever is really valuable for are ones where in the modern world you should go to a hospital and in the case of a bacterial infection be given antibiotics)

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#259

I lived with an ICU nurse for years and one of the things he emphasized was the risk of acetaminophen overdose. He's more than once treated the liver failure (and death) from it and by his words, it's one of the worse ways to go. The positive of it is it got me in the habit of logging whenever I take it, either in a note on my phone or just a sheet of paper I place on my dresser under the bottle. This helps make sure…

In my wilderness first responder class they emphasized taking a cocktail of ibuprofen and acetaminophen - both are effective pain relievers, each with different dangerous side effects.

The benefits stack, the side effects don't.

So if you are going to be loading up on higher doses of pain relief, take half acetaminophen and half ibuprofen.

Re: Acetaminophen vs. ibuprofen

#260
post #197
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I randomly bought NAC just to try it. I dont know about the chemical interactions, but going out with collegues at that time taught me that it's basically impossible to get drunk. Usually a pint of beer is enough to make le feel at least a little dizzy, but when taking NAC, it was all like drinking water

NAC taken before consuming alcohol has a positive effect apparently, but taken afterwards it's detrimental as mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcysteine

On mice.
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