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Android Developer Verification

android-developers.googleblog.com

251–260 of 345 posts

Re: Android Developer Verification

#251

What % of Android users actually want this? Do they know or care? I've been using Android since 2010 because it was open in ways that the Apple ecosystem wasn't. I do not want this and imagine hardly any other power users (for lack of a better term) do. I'm already using a mostly deGoogled device but this really seals the deal. I have been longing for a true Linux phone for years and now seems like a good time to get…

This change on its own doesn't make Google Android builds less open. It does the opposite. Now people can download apps directly from the websites of the publishers without getting a scary warning on Google Android builds. That's all this does.

Separately, they're going to increase friction the first time you allow installing apps outside of the Play Store or via this mechanism and also decrease friction on subsequent times, also on Google Android builds.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#252
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What % of Android users actually want this? Do they know or care? 2%, according to the keepandroidopen.org poll[^1] [^1] https://techhub.social/@keepandroidopen/116251892296272830

Do we think that maybe the 3,732 people who responded to a poll on Mastodon by an account centered around one side of this disagreement might potentially not be a representative sample of all Android users?

It's a bit hard to poll 4 billion devices, but out of all 4 billion devices I think it's safe to assume that the percentage of users who do care can be rounded up to maybe 1% at most.

Developers and enthusiasts are an extreme minority that's incredibly vocal. I think most people here disagree with Google's approach but too many people are pretending like their interests and use cases are significant on a "half the planet" scale.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#253
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it because people genuinely don't care, or because the barrier to become a power user is becoming taller and taller every passing year?

Is it because Android literally has billions of users across the world.

A large portion of which are using it in a feature phone capacity. Many only use smartphones because it’s what their carrier gave them after their old candybar dumbphone either broke or became unable to connect to cell towers.

The other groups are those who use it identically to how they would iOS (and don’t root or sideload), those that use it as computer replacement, and those who just like to tinker. Those last two groups are a tiny, tiny sliver relative to the others.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen those YouTube videos of people punking scammers? Scammers will convince people to drive to Target, buy gift cards, and read the credentials out over the phone. Those same people can surely talk you through tapping out a dialog flow. That's presumably why there's a lockout period - it keeps a scammer from reasonably holding the line until they can pressure you to finish it.

> Have you seen those YouTube videos of people punking scammers? Scammers will convince people to drive to Target, buy gift cards, and read the credentials out over the phone. Those same people can surely talk you through tapping out a dialog flow. ...if the scammer can get the victim to physically drive to Target a buy a bunch of gift cards, what makes you think they need to install anything on your phone? Having RC…

Having RCE on a human is like having RCE on a SOTA LLM webservice - tricky to get, and you'll probably lose it if the other side reloads.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#255
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see a way out of this except government regulation. IMHO governments are partially behind those initiatives so they are unlikely to regulate themself- reason in last few years they intensified work on Digital ID, Age Verification, Chat control, KYC, etc.

EU is schizophrenic enough that it often produces very conflicting directions, opinions and policies. One thing EU loves is regulation though, so I expect they will introduce preemptive regulations to enforce strict ID verification as well as regulations to fine big companies for breaching user privacy with strict ID verification policies.

ID verification for app stores already discussed and voted behind closed-doors trilogue meetings, unelected governments like darkness:

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/end-of-chat-control-eu-parl...

"Next up in the ongoing trilogue, lawmakers will negotiate whether messenger and chat services, as well as app stores, will be legally obliged to implement age verification."

Re: Android Developer Verification

#256
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please call it what it is and always has been: I.N.S.T.A.L.L.I.N.G S.O.F.T.W.A.R.E "side load" is like "jay walking' seeks to stigmatize humans being human.

When you jay walk you take the risk of being hit by a car, causing injuries to you, to the driver, and to other nearby people. So I don't understand your analogy? Are you suggesting that pedestrians own the streets and should do what they please, as users own their phone and should have the right to do as they please? Or something else?

"Jaywalking" is one of those things that's uniquely American. Most other countries have realized that the risk of being hit by a car is its own deterrent. Or restrict the legal ban on crossing to highways, not all streets.

The UK Highway Code has a RFC-like use of MUST/SHOULD; MUST parts are legally binding, the parts relating to pedestrians are SHOULD.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rounded to the nearest percent, I'd guess power users make up 0% of android user base.

And what is your view on the percentage of power users among iphone user base? Also zero? One hundred? So interesting.

The share of power users on iOS might be larger than expected because a lot of people working in tech fight computers for a living and prefer their phones to be simple appliances assigned to a relatively focused set of tasks.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen those YouTube videos of people punking scammers? Scammers will convince people to drive to Target, buy gift cards, and read the credentials out over the phone. Those same people can surely talk you through tapping out a dialog flow. That's presumably why there's a lockout period - it keeps a scammer from reasonably holding the line until they can pressure you to finish it.

> Have you seen those YouTube videos of people punking scammers? Scammers will convince people to drive to Target, buy gift cards, and read the credentials out over the phone. Those same people can surely talk you through tapping out a dialog flow. ...if the scammer can get the victim to physically drive to Target a buy a bunch of gift cards, what makes you think they need to install anything on your phone? Having RC…

Their deception often relies on remote-controlling a PC, modifying a bank balance to show a fake number using basic "inspect element", and convincing the victim that they "accidentally" received a refund that's too high (often by having the victim type out the "refund" amount in their notepad-looking "refund system" and adding a couple of zeroes).

By making the victim believe that they're to blame for this innocent worker losing his job, they convince these people that they need to go outside normal financial systems to get the money back before anyone notices. Alternative scam scripts also have scammers pretend to be government officials threatening with fines and lawsuits, but the end goal is often to get into the victim's bank account in a way that the victim will tell the bank that everything is fine when fraud detection systems catch wire transfers or suspicious behaviour.

If the victim at any point opens up their official banking app, which scammers cannot control, they'll see that they never received the supposed "refund". With banks moving more and more functionality to apps, scammers can't pull the same tricks if they don't have access to your phone.

Scambaiting Youtubers have shown to be able to throw scammers of their guard by doing the most basic things. Disabling "inspect element" and cmd.exe will stop a scammer right in their tracks, because suddenly their phone script doesn't work any more.

If the victim needs to wait a full day, they'll be more likely to talk to someone. There are plenty of interviews with victims where they will say they realized their mistake hours or even minutes after it's too late. Stress and constant pressure is one of the primary means scammers employ to prevent people from thinking rationally so their obvious and ridiculous lies don't get spotted.

While I think developer verification is monumentally stupid and won't stop any serious scams, I do believe that the timeout measure Google makes people jump through does help.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#259
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think they are doing it?

F-Droid still works the same as it did before. This just means that McDonald's can distribute its apps on its website without showing a scary warning on install on Google's Android builds.

No it doesn’t. You will now have to follow a lengthy process before being allowed to install apps from F-Droid.

Re: Android Developer Verification

#260
post #250

> It’s only when a user tries to install an unregistered app that they’ll require ADB or advanced flow, helping us keep the broader community safe while preserving the flexibility for our power users. So, we have a sideloaded app now. Which has been increasingly tricky for our users to install. The warning they get is hard to understand. Does this mean essentially the end of sideloading?

If you get 'verified' by Google and sign your app, sideloading shouldn't change. That means money and ID checks, or a free 'hobbyist' carve out if you have If you don't want to play their game, sideloading will get substantially harder.
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