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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#251

Post by raverbashing »

Stagnant wrote: post #33

Okay so I had to look in to it because the site is not really doing a good job explaining it at all. Turns out[0] that they are voting for the extension of the temporary regulation thats been in effect since 2021 (Regulation (EU) 2021/1232). So this is about the "voluntary scanning of private communications" (which is still bad, but has been in effect for almost 5 years already). [0]: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/s…

Yeah so this is about CC 1.0 (which already exists)

While it's still worth fighting, it is less worrying

The question of course is, why something is allowed multiple votes (and the basic answer is - if it presented some changed - but I don't know if it's the case)

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#253

Post by moezd »

That's the problem with electing too many people with law background to a parliament: They think it's a Model United Nations session and if they can get things their way despite many real world consequences, they celebrate with joy as our governance becomes literally ungovernable.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#254

Post by Anonasty »

pyuser583 wrote: post #247
latexr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen, it pisses me off that the US is (with others outside the EU) trying this hard to lobby to undermine our democracy and freedom of speech. https://digitalcourage.social/@echo_pbreyer/1162053712243153... And I’d still take this clusterfuck over the alternative current state of the US. At least this situation we can (and have been) striking down, despite all the naysayers on HN. Here’s to hoping we’re ab…

Freedom of speech is not a European value.

Based on what?

https://rsf.org/en/index

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/freedom-of-expression-ind...

I would be more worried about police and wannabe police shooting people on the streets, detaining citizens without due process, sending billions to war in Iran while regular people are struggling with day-to-day life. Your universities and primary schools are restricted what they can teach or say either by government or religious movements.

Sure, the chat control is a serious privacy issue but acting like US is some sort of bastion of free speech is not based on anything real. And yes, while hate speech is not allowed in europe like in the US, we at least understand that freedom comes with responsibility.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#255

Post by randunel »

Aerroon wrote: post #185
x775 wrote: post #66

I am the creator of Fight Chat Control. Thank you for sharing. It is unfortunately, once again, needed. The recent events have been rather dumbfounding. On March 11, the Parliament surprisingly voted to replace blanket mass surveillance with targeted monitoring of suspects following judicial involvement [0]. As Council refused to compromise, the trilogue negotiations were set to fail, thus allowing the Commission's c…

>let's vote on this proposal >rejected >let's vote on it again! Is it still a democracy if you just keep redoing the vote until you get the outcome you want? The politicians involved in this should be ashamed of themselves.

Sounds a lot like nagging [0] with some trick wording [1] in the nag.

I think the website is missing a dark pattern here, spray-and-pray, which is throwing as many reincarnations of the same thing as possible, hoping one eventually sticks.

[0] https://www.deceptive.design/types/nagging

[1] https://www.deceptive.design/types/trick-wording

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#256

Post by weakened_malloc »

rcbdev wrote: post #249
weakened_malloc wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I mentioned this in another comment) Because the people voting it down are the elected MEPs, whilst the people putting it up to parliament are the European Commission. The EC are appointed, rather than elected. Which means the powers that be just appoint people who are going to push through laws like this, that they want. The MEPs can't put up bills to be voted on.

And who exactly do you think elected the 'powers that be'? The issue is that voter turnout for EU parliamentary elections is awful in comparison to national elections, especially among more conservative voters - meaning that the political orientation between the parliament and commission is a little skewed.

Sure, but then you end up with stuff like this happening time and time again. If something doesn't pass the first time, put it through again, and again.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#257

Post by Anonasty »

afh1 wrote: post #126

Where are all those "as an EU citizen" commenters? You are but a subject of an ultra-national government whose sole objective is ever increased control over your life and euros.

EU is not a government for all EU members. You should look into what EU is and how it works before attacking it. Claiming that it's "ultra national" would mean that all of EU is one nation which shares one ideological, cultural and political sphere. There are 27 EU members with 24 official languages, 20 of those countries are part of the Euro currency zone.

But if you are a US citizen, I would refrain talking about increased control of life outside of your own turf. Your education system is controlled either government or religious groups. Your streets are patrolled by uneducated police troops without control and they are detaining even US citizens without due process. Now your government says they will block all foreign made routers. And did you forget NSA Prism program? Your voting system is controlled via gerrymandered maps which are changing constantly depending who's in the control. Lots of your citizens are living paycheck to paycheck and one health issue can bankrupt them and only way to survive is to ask money from strangers via gofundme. All because of healthcare and insurance companies greed and politicians lack of interests of their constituents.

Yeah, the EU legislation about privacy and chat control is problematic but saying that US is doing so much better for it's citizens is a stretch.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#258

Post by theodric »

troad wrote: post #138
narmiouh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It clearly states here in 2 “consent of the person concerned OR some other legitimate basis laid down the law”, any random law will trump personal consent

One of the reasons international human rights law is so worthless in actual practice, is that half of it is framed like this. "Everyone has the right to X, except as duly restricted by law." Cool, so that's not a right at all then. Ditto the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, with its 'notwithstanding' clause. (Though they're presently litigating over that, so we'll see what happens!) Any constitution or human…

Even if the law included the literal phrase "Congress shall make no law" or "shall not be infringed", there would still be carve-outs and exceptions deemed acceptable and non-infringing because at the end of the day it's the government, and they'll do what they want, because who exactly is going to stop them?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#259

Post by weakened_malloc »

markdown wrote: post #246
weakened_malloc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but it's a step removed. The MEPs are directly voted in whilst the EC are not, they're "voted in" on account of "voted in" people assigning them to the EC. I mean nobody argues that the FED governor is voted in, right? In reality a lot of people argue that they're unelected and yet making decisions that affect everyone.

As it should be. It's good that both the US Fed Reserve Governor and EC appointees didn't have win popularity contests to get there.

Eh in a way, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand if Fed governors didn't have independence, the inflation rate would make Venezuela look like a bastion of economic management. On the other hand, you end up with situations like this where the EC can just keep trying to force in poor policy.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#260

Post by Anonasty »

on_the_train wrote: post #231
afh1 wrote: post #126

Where are all those "as an EU citizen" commenters? You are but a subject of an ultra-national government whose sole objective is ever increased control over your life and euros.

[flagged]

Sounds like russian troll talking point.
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