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Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

hormuz.pythonic.ninja

251–260 of 507 posts

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#251
post #240
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A double tap strike as well. Definitely no mistake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack Edit: *triple tap.

Triple tap seems to indicate definitely a mistake in targeting. Despite the war aims being nebulous, illegal, and ever changing, none of them would be advanced by bombing a girls school.

>none of them would be advanced by bombing a girls school.

no shit... this is not proof of a mistake.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#252
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you not like the Iranian regime to be destroyed at all?

It wasn't sarcasm. We are on the same team here.

I suppose it comes down to: is it about time for somebody to blunder into this and destructively mismanage the war, or shall we wait another forty years?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#253
post #245
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you like a country to respond to getting bombed?

Destroy the bombers, not children? Also I am confused which contry you mean, mutual bombing has going on there since a while.

The school was next to a missile launcher.

Iran bombed Israel in January as a distraction tactic during the protests.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#254
post #48

Ok, I did win. Do I get cheaper gasoline now?

That's it? Momentary gasoline price is all that matters now? Not geopolitical interests, alliances, _Doing The Right Thing_? If that's the only angle you care about, then US subduing the Iranian regime would go a long way to de-facto dissolving OPEC and bring much more flexibility to oil prices.

All of those matter, making this whole situation even more unjustified.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#255
post #112
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "doing the right thing" is bombing an all girls school?

A double tap strike as well. Definitely no mistake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack Edit: *triple tap.

From the same article:

>Independent analysis of satellite imagery suggested that the school and the Sayyid al-Shuhada military complex had been struck near-simultaneously by air-delivered munitions.[39]

The objectionable part of double/triple tap strike is that you're killing rescuers or aid workers. Otherwise from a morality perspective there's no meaningful difference between 1 bomb and 2/3 bombs, especially if the actual incident was by all accounts caused by a targeting error.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#256
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not be. It might be. Uncertainty is the point of what Iran is doing. There might be mines in the straight that are sophisticated enough to be armed, disarmed, or moved on command, or there might not. There might be artillery emplacements* hidden and not found, ready to pop up... or there might not. There are probably still plenty of drones and missiles all over the country that can be called down on Hormuz a…

So what's left of the Iranian regime is basically like the Houthis now, reduced to getting world attention by committing random acts of piracy and firing at random ships off their coast. To make whatever point they were trying to make. Seems like a win to me. Declare victory, say the straight is open, just like the Red Sea is open. If anything moves at shipping, destroy its source. They don't have a right to attack m…

> Declare victory, say the straight is open, just like the Red Sea is open. If anything moves at shipping, destroy its source.

Do you understand the concept of asymmetrical warfare? Hiding hundreds of launchers, firing them, and losing them is already accounted for by Iran, while a decent chance of losing any asset going through is prohibitively expensive. The strait is closed.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#257
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Do most of your everyday life decisions involve starting wars or killing people? That's concerning. Are you a high-ranking officer in the US military? As it happens, I'm not, and my decisions do not typically have life-or-death consequences. I also don't even know what you're getting at. There was nothing "relativistic" or "morally grey" about my argument. My point is that in order for any kind of peace to exist,…

I didn't think the point was that subtle. There is good and evil, right and wrong, survival and destruction. You seem to think that drawing a line around some land and calling yourself a country immunizes you from the moral scrutiny of your neighbors. While this certainly accords with the promulgations of the morally bankrupt UN, it is not a recipe for existing in our world. This is why it is important to have a powe…

It is a matter of pragmatism. Even if I myself consider my perspective on good and evil to be objective, it is a given that each of my neighbors will have their own seemingly-objective sense of good and bad that differs from my own. We are then at an impasse. Do I attempt to kill all of my neighbors in order to rid the world of what I perceive to be evil? Or do I perhaps make peace with an imperfect world in which bad things happen in other countries that are not my jurisdiction to worry about? Apparently you subscribe to the "kill all your neighbors" camp, that your objective brand of morality must be enforced on the entire world by means of military might. World conquest, however, is an utterly irrational thing to attempt, and will only lead to death and destruction, not an idealistic world that conforms to your sense of morality.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t think that the person you’re replying to is Donald Trump, do you? I'm confused how this interpretation could ever come about. No, I mean his point about "Trump trying to bolster NATO" is comic, as Trump is actively weakening NATO, no matter his stated goals wrt. improving funding and having member states "carry their load". _Especially_ his threats to Greenland and Canada, for no apparent reason. It's rea…

Turns out consistency is overrated. We talk as if it's a bare minimum, but there isn't actually any penalty for violating it. We've still got some kind of karmic notion that inconsistency is bad for you in the long run. Maybe it is, but that run keeps getting longer and longer.

Having contact with reality is quite important when critical moments arise. Fantasy can proper you quite high, but there is a breaking point where it can't carry the day. Trump & Co are both post-truth and detached for reality. I am a bit scared for your country when you get a post-truth populist that is NOT detached from reality. If you can't deal with a buffoon like Trump, how will you be able to deal with someone who is half competent? Truth be told, I don't know how to deal with these people.

Not that my country fared any better with this kind of rhetoric in last couple of years. But we don't have the democratic tradition as rich as you had (or at least I felt you had). I feel like despair will be the feeling for me this decade.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Under sanctions to prevent them from being a danger to everyone around them while they sponsor terror globally and go on TV talking about getting nuclear weapons to destroy Israel. Most of Europe is within striking distance of their current capabilities that they were not supposed to have. Treaties gave terms to limit the range of their missiles. Treaties were agreed to to prevent them from enriching uranium.…

The real dangers to peace in the Middle East are America, Israel and historically the British, because these three are the bastards that toppled Iran's democracy and lead them to such a defensive posture in the first place. With the utmost respect, kindly blow your judeo-american sanctions out your ass. America should have NOTHING to do with Iran whatsoever, we don't have any moral right to intervention here.

It’s impossible to take anyone seriously who dismisses the threat of developing a nuclear weapon with intent to use it.

Sponsoring and funding global terror networks is not a “defensive posture”. Giving speeches about nuking your enemy while secretly developing those capabilities isn’t either.

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