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Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

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Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#251

Post by achompas »

rvz wrote: post #143
827a wrote: post #98

I'm really struggling to understand how Anthropic is benefited by not allowing this. Its bad PR for no good reason. The only thing I can figure is that Claude Code is hemorrhaging money, they're too afraid to actually enforce reasonable token limits, and the only thing that's keeping it from totally bankrupting the company tomorrow is: controlling the harness and having the harness dynamically route toward Haiku or S…

Anthropic doesn't care and it is all to look good for their IPO. They are still losing billions of dollars and will do anything to keep people hooked onto the API and will litigate against their own customers. They will even lobby against open-weight models which is their biggest threat and want to make them illegal to run in the US just for them to succeed. Anthropic are not your friends and want you to become addic…

Yes, it is true that companies often litigate against customers who violate their Terms of Service. The TOS is put into place to protect the company’s interests from user abuse.

Paying customers of Claude Code don’t receive a free-use license for any desired application. They’re paying to use Claude Code. Anthropic can take steps to litigate usage outside of those terms, even if customers find that fact really annoying.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#252

Post by phist_mcgee »

827a wrote: post #98

I'm really struggling to understand how Anthropic is benefited by not allowing this. Its bad PR for no good reason. The only thing I can figure is that Claude Code is hemorrhaging money, they're too afraid to actually enforce reasonable token limits, and the only thing that's keeping it from totally bankrupting the company tomorrow is: controlling the harness and having the harness dynamically route toward Haiku or S…

>I seriously get the feeling that Anthropic doesn't just not care about their users

AI companies would have to be one of the worst for actually caring about their user's health and wellbeing.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#253

Post by dpe82 »

rudedogg wrote: post #229
nikcub wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is analogous to when Google launched Gmail with 1GB of storage and then a bunch of third-party apps cropped up that took advantage of it to use it as a generic online file storage drive. There was GMailFS[0] and Gmail Drive[1] - this is before S3, dropbox, and a time where web hosting would give you ~10MB or so of space. Google updated their ToS and shut down accounts using their service in ways they weren't int…

This is more like if Google took action against Thunderbird and open-source email clients

Google explicitly allows third party email clients to work with Gmail, so no that hypothetical does not apply to this situation at all.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#254

Post by dandellion »

piskov wrote: post #246
nikcub wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is analogous to when Google launched Gmail with 1GB of storage and then a bunch of third-party apps cropped up that took advantage of it to use it as a generic online file storage drive. There was GMailFS[0] and Gmail Drive[1] - this is before S3, dropbox, and a time where web hosting would give you ~10MB or so of space. Google updated their ToS and shut down accounts using their service in ways they weren't int…

So what openai does differently than anthropic to allow usage everywhere via chatgpt subscription? Hemorrhaging money more than Anthropic?

If anyone has a better theory I'd love to hear it, but going by Occam's Razor that's the most likely explanation that I would pick.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#255

Post by guelo »

sufehmi wrote: post #221
malisper wrote: post #188

Since there's a lot of questions about what this means, let me explain. Anthropic has two different products that are relevant here: the Claude API and Claude Code. The Claude API has usage based pricing. The more you use, the more you pay. With Claude Code, you can get a monthly subscription which gives you a fixed amount of usage. Comparing equivalent token generation between the Claude API and Claude Code, Claude…

this is actually the best explanation of this situation, why is it downvoted?

people like directing anger at a "bad guy"

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#256

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

manacit wrote: post #235
danny_codes wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This exactly. Kimi 2.5 has coding performance hardly discernible from Claude. The only way to maintain a business edge is to crush open source clients to force people into a closed ecosystem. Once there, create context moat where people are not in control of their own context data (cannot export it to open tooling). Maybe we can call it the Oracle play? It’ll be interesting to see if companies get tricked. I think it…

This is, I'm sorry to say, simply not true. Anthropic and Open AI are materially ahead of every open source model out there at this time. The best they can hope to do is be Sonnet-adjacent, and even then I have not seen it.

> are materially ahead of every open source model out there at this time

They aren't. Any difference is in sampling parameters and post-training flavor choices. These aren't things that are "materially ahead", that's basically just LLM themes.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#257

Post by paxys »

827a wrote: post #98

I'm really struggling to understand how Anthropic is benefited by not allowing this. Its bad PR for no good reason. The only thing I can figure is that Claude Code is hemorrhaging money, they're too afraid to actually enforce reasonable token limits, and the only thing that's keeping it from totally bankrupting the company tomorrow is: controlling the harness and having the harness dynamically route toward Haiku or S…

You are wayy overestimating the negative press. HN commenters are a negligible fraction of Anthropic's user base, and I can guarantee that even people here will forget about this and go right back to using Claude Code in a couple days when there is something else to be outraged about. The company needs to do what is best for its business.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#258

Post by Aurornis »

rudedogg wrote: post #229
nikcub wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is analogous to when Google launched Gmail with 1GB of storage and then a bunch of third-party apps cropped up that took advantage of it to use it as a generic online file storage drive. There was GMailFS[0] and Gmail Drive[1] - this is before S3, dropbox, and a time where web hosting would give you ~10MB or so of space. Google updated their ToS and shut down accounts using their service in ways they weren't int…

This is more like if Google took action against Thunderbird and open-source email clients

It's not analogous at all because Google intentionally provided interfaces for those clients and even instructions for using them.

An analogous situation would be if someone reverse engineered the Google Maps API and provided their own app that showed maps using the Google Maps data.

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#259

Post by achompas »

malisper wrote: post #188

Since there's a lot of questions about what this means, let me explain. Anthropic has two different products that are relevant here: the Claude API and Claude Code. The Claude API has usage based pricing. The more you use, the more you pay. With Claude Code, you can get a monthly subscription which gives you a fixed amount of usage. Comparing equivalent token generation between the Claude API and Claude Code, Claude…

Yep, well said and great, sharp explanation.

I think we can attribute a bunch of consternation here to drift between assumed and actual licensing terms.

The actual licensing terms for Claude Code expressly prohibit use of the product outside of the Claude Code harness. If you want Opus outside of CC, the API is available for your use anytime.

Some percentage of the community seems to assume their Claude Code subscription licenses allow free usage of CC across any product surface - including competing products like OpenCode. While this is a great way to save on API costs, the assumption is incorrect. In fact, it is *so* incorrect that Anthropic has encoded their licensing terms into their Terms of Service, and a result can take legal action against any violating parties.

We can have separate discussions about Anthropic’s use of the Common Crawl in pre-training, or whether foundation labs adhere to robots.txt conventions. But those don’t directly impact Anthropic’s right to bring litigation.

——

Outside of that I think angry users have their own stated preferences v revealed preferences here. They claim they want Opus on their terms, and Anthropic’s actions infringe on their user rights.

Angry folks: Opus is right there! You just need an API key! The reality is you want Opus in your devtools of choice at discounted rates. You could at least be honest about your consternation

Re: Anthropic takes legal action against OpenCode

#260

Post by wyre »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #230
raincole wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I discovered pi I cancelled my Claude subscription and subscribed to ChatGPT. On one hand, the competition is making miracles. On the other hand, it's pretty dooming that there is only one (1) company that keeps my agent cost reasonable.

> Since I discovered pi I cancelled my Claude subscription and subscribed to ChatGPT. Sorry, what is pi and how are you using it with ChatGPT for agentic coding?

Pi.dev

Extensible coding agent written in typescript. It’s exactly what you (I’m projecting) want out of Claude Code if you’re okay investing time into building your harness or prompting an agent to build it.

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