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Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

michaelgeist.ca

251–260 of 374 posts

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada does not have a concept of civil liberties in the way USA (supposedly) does. There is no illusion that the government has complete control to monitor, track, and even arrest anyone they want. They do this all the time, even physically tracking and boxing in protesters to beat them.

This is obviously a bot comment. Is there really no room for automoderation of new accounts on HN?

[deleted]

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada does not have a concept of civil liberties in the way USA (supposedly) does. There is no illusion that the government has complete control to monitor, track, and even arrest anyone they want. They do this all the time, even physically tracking and boxing in protesters to beat them.

This is obviously a bot comment. Is there really no room for automoderation of new accounts on HN?

Bot? It sounds to me more like the words you’d hear from an astroturfing American who doesn’t understand anything about Canadian laws. I say that as an American familiar with only some Canadian law, but enough to at least be aware of Rights and Freedoms.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously a bot comment. Is there really no room for automoderation of new accounts on HN?

Bot? It sounds to me more like the words you’d hear from an astroturfing American who doesn’t understand anything about Canadian laws. I say that as an American familiar with only some Canadian law, but enough to at least be aware of Rights and Freedoms.

Bruh I've lived in Toronto for 30 years. Ask me more about Horseshoe Tavern and Danforth Hall.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada does not have a concept of civil liberties in the way USA (supposedly) does. There is no illusion that the government has complete control to monitor, track, and even arrest anyone they want. They do this all the time, even physically tracking and boxing in protesters to beat them.

This is obviously a bot comment. Is there really no room for automoderation of new accounts on HN?

I see people forget how govt de-banked people in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest pretty quickly

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#255
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see an issue with this section. A judge still needs to issue a warrant, they can also additionally waive the requirement that the cop gives you a copy right away, in special circumstances. Like are you envisioning a "I totally have a warrant but I don't have to give it to you" type situation? I think it's fairly unlikely, and you would likely be able to get the search ruled inadmissible if a cop tried…

Are you familiar with parallel construction? That's what this is for. If they have a warrant and show it to you, it says what they can search and why. If they don't tell you what they're searching for and why, they can look for anything, and then construct a separate scenario which just happens to expose the thing they knew would be there from the first fishing expedition. They then use this (usually circumstantial)…

I don't see the problem with this. It's inadvisable to try to stop the police from doing whatever they want to do if they assert that they have the right to do it. You then get the lawyers involved and sort it out afterwards. Comparing the timestamp on the warrant to the time of the police action should hopefully determine whether parallel construction is taking place.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#256
post #142

It feels like many democratic leaders are starting to think the CCP model—mass surveillance of citizens—is the right direction, with growing demands for chat control, facial verification, age verification, and more. Fxxk any politician who thinks they are above the citizens in a democracy.

[flagged]

These countries are disguised vassals of the United States.

They're nominally independent but in practice are run by a local oligarchy who generally do as they please within the confines of what the US allows.

Theyre effectively all as independent as Poland or Hungary were under the Soviet Union. i.e. not.

There are the occasional anti-us imperialist and anti-oligarchy candidates who gain popularity but their careers are usually terminated with a deluge of mudslinging or by using bureaucracy to lock them out of the political system.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#257

Regarding warrantless searches and access ... reading the text of the bill (OP link) warrants seem to be required. Simple, right? Well, no, this is a recently inserted block of text in the bill (confirm at the link above): Exception (2. 7)(b) However, a copy of the warrant is not required to be given to a person under subsection (2. 6) if the judge or justice who issues the warrant sets aside the requirement in respe…

> warrants seem to be required

Applies in the text you quoted, unlike true warrantless surveillance NSA-style?

You still have to get the warrant past a judge, and convince the judge of the higher bar for keeping the warrant secret.

I presume the distinction here could be between a search warrant, which you have to show the subject before entering their house, and a surveillance/wiretap warrant which you for obvious reason's don't.

(Meanwhile, FIVE EYES carries on as usual.)

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#258

Regarding warrantless searches and access ... reading the text of the bill (OP link) warrants seem to be required. Simple, right? Well, no, this is a recently inserted block of text in the bill (confirm at the link above): Exception (2. 7)(b) However, a copy of the warrant is not required to be given to a person under subsection (2. 6) if the judge or justice who issues the warrant sets aside the requirement in respe…

Are you suggesting that when investigating members of a criminal organization, they should be notified? It seems pretty reasonable for there to be cases where making a target aware of investigation would be detrimental to proving the illegal activity they are currently engaged in but would likely discontinue if literally told “we are monitoring you specifically now”.

Yes, but the warrant should be revealed eventually. Worst case, if you can't prove or disprove someone committed a crime after X time, you should alert them to discourage future crime (they may have already done more crimes during X time; besides public interest, it also forces you to cut your losses when the alternative would be to dig a deeper hole).

Do these warrants have a fixed maximum duration of secrecy?

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously a bot comment. Is there really no room for automoderation of new accounts on HN?

Bot? It sounds to me more like the words you’d hear from an astroturfing American who doesn’t understand anything about Canadian laws. I say that as an American familiar with only some Canadian law, but enough to at least be aware of Rights and Freedoms.

I mean yea, I assume that's the persona it was going for. It was an account just made to post this called canadian000, I would have called it out as a broke uni student being paid to astroturf ten years ago but I assumed that market has been fully cornered by bots by now. Maybe it's just a really dedicated politically-willed crazy but either way it contributes nothing to these discussions and should be banned. It's bad flame bait and ruins the quality of the site.

Re: Bill C-22, the Lawful Access Act: Dangerous backdoor surveillance risks remain

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with parallel construction? That's what this is for. If they have a warrant and show it to you, it says what they can search and why. If they don't tell you what they're searching for and why, they can look for anything, and then construct a separate scenario which just happens to expose the thing they knew would be there from the first fishing expedition. They then use this (usually circumstantial)…

I don't see the problem with this. It's inadvisable to try to stop the police from doing whatever they want to do if they assert that they have the right to do it. You then get the lawyers involved and sort it out afterwards. Comparing the timestamp on the warrant to the time of the police action should hopefully determine whether parallel construction is taking place.

Nothing good is going to be solved by expanding law enforcement's power, reach, or lightening any existing restrictions. We are not suffering from crimes due to lack of law enforcement's legal scope. It's quite the opposite.
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