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Stop Sloppypasta

stopsloppypasta.ai

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Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#251

Post by Gigachad »

namdnay wrote: post #194
Gigachad wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careless people never used to be able to create such absolute volumes of garbage that flood the system. Open source projects used to be able to just have an open PRs system, because the effort to create and submit something is quite hard, it's a natural filter. Now automated agents can flood a project with hundreds of useless PRs that disguise themselves as being real.

I've had exactly the same feeling. Since the beginning of time, it has generally taken more effort to build something than to review it. This is no longer the case, and it completely breaks some processes. The quick solution is to escalate the arms race, and start using AI to filter the AI slop, but I'm not sure that's a world I want to work in :)

AI review can’t properly review AI code.

If you think of it like filters, a human programmer does everything they know and test to avoid bugs, then the AI review catches some things that slip through to catch a larger total number of bugs. But if both sides are AI the same stuff slips through both stages and blows up on production. It makes more sense to just improve the models to make less mistakes than to have AI review itself.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#252

Post by madrox »

TonyStr wrote: post #131
madrox wrote: post #8

I find that I don't have a lot of sympathy for people angry at this type of behavior, even though I share the disdain for someone else's AI output. The people doing this kind of thing are not the kind of people to be reading this manifesto. We've been creating bait content for a long time, and humans have never been given the tools to manage this in any sophisticated fashion. The internet was not a bastion of high qu…

Talking about bait, good job getting 42 responses on hacker news! Your opinions are controversial enough to draw out people who need to correct them, yet genuine enough to not be passed off as a troll and downvoted.

It's been pretty amusing seeing the total upvotes for my comment go up and down.

I wasn't expecting it to be so controversial. Reading and responding to many of the replies, I think many people are strawmanning me as being in support of AI slop.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#253

Post by madrox »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #179
madrox wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm asking humans, I want to see human responses I find this fascinating, honestly. It shouldn't matter as long as it addresses your ask, yet it does. I also wish I could filter social media on "it's not X. It's Y" Because it's probably not actually about the content but the sense of connection. People want to feel like they're connecting to people. That they're being worthy of someone's else's time and attentio…

We can tell by your fury that you’re a slop poster. I don’t want a random person’s use of an AI to be slopped at me. I don’t know what they asked it, a lot of the words are made up, and I have to go through the effort of decoding it. If I wanted an AI answer I would ask an AI. AI slop is made up. It’s like handing me a paste of google search results. It’s creating work for me.

I agree with you. No one wants this.

But the internet has had slop long before AI. It's in the same class as clickbait. AI just made it worse and given the slop a distinct flavor. You can be furious about this if you want, but to me this seems like a waste of energy, which is the whole point of my original post.

We need better tools for managing our attention. Perhaps the effort of decoding it can be offloaded to AI.

Is that lame? Yes, but at least it's somewhat effective.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#254

Post by madrox »

Gigachad wrote: post #168
madrox wrote: post #8

I find that I don't have a lot of sympathy for people angry at this type of behavior, even though I share the disdain for someone else's AI output. The people doing this kind of thing are not the kind of people to be reading this manifesto. We've been creating bait content for a long time, and humans have never been given the tools to manage this in any sophisticated fashion. The internet was not a bastion of high qu…

>like they're being hoodwinked somehow Because they are. It would be like if I bought some trinket off aliexpress and told you I made it by hand just for you. You wouldn't mind if you bought it yourself, but the fact that I lied about it to make it seem like I care is deceptive and immoral. Sending someone AI generated text without disclosing so is incredibly offensive. It says you don't care about wasting the receiv…

I agree. I think it's interesting that, even if AI handles the conversation effectively, we're still repulsed.

I'm curious what will happen once AI generated text gets good enough that people can't tell the difference. Will we just assume everything is AI and remain suspicious, or will we stop caring?

My hunch is we'll all retreat to places of the internet where we can feel sure we're talking to real people and there are chains of trust. For example, I spend most of my time on discord servers where people are real life friends or friends of friends, and increasingly assume "public" internet to be AI default, and therefore use our own AI to browse and summarize for us.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#255

Post by Gigachad »

madrox wrote: post #254
Gigachad wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>like they're being hoodwinked somehow Because they are. It would be like if I bought some trinket off aliexpress and told you I made it by hand just for you. You wouldn't mind if you bought it yourself, but the fact that I lied about it to make it seem like I care is deceptive and immoral. Sending someone AI generated text without disclosing so is incredibly offensive. It says you don't care about wasting the receiv…

I agree. I think it's interesting that, even if AI handles the conversation effectively, we're still repulsed. I'm curious what will happen once AI generated text gets good enough that people can't tell the difference. Will we just assume everything is AI and remain suspicious, or will we stop caring? My hunch is we'll all retreat to places of the internet where we can feel sure we're talking to real people and there…

I like to think that a lot of the current internet is just going to die and we will return to more in person interaction. And I think awareness of this is continuously rising. Terms like "chronically offline", talking about quitting social media, reducing phone use, etc are hot right now. But I'm still yet to see awareness and talk convert to action. People are as addicted to social media as they ever have been. We just widely recognize much like junk food and cigarettes where we know it's bad but keep doing it anyway.

What I'm fairly confident of is people will not just enjoy being deceived in to talking to bots. We have seen this before, companies and customer service platforms have been using templated messages to imitate real human conversation for a while. When you load a website and the Intercom chat box pops up with a message that looks like a real person from the company is trying to talk to you, initially it might have worked but very quickly you learn it's fake and tune it out.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#256

Post by eucyclos »

shimman wrote: post #245
eucyclos wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta disagree. I've found several great new YouTube channels that clearly use ai for everything but the script writing. I assume it's an enthusiastic and smart niche expert who lacks the charisma to make videos in addition to doing the research. In very glad ai is filling in those people's weak spots.

What are these youtube channels, care to share their names?

John ag and that survivalist raccoon were the two I had in mind.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#257

Post by eucyclos »

ngetchell wrote: post #176
eucyclos wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta disagree. I've found several great new YouTube channels that clearly use ai for everything but the script writing. I assume it's an enthusiastic and smart niche expert who lacks the charisma to make videos in addition to doing the research. In very glad ai is filling in those people's weak spots.

How do you know the scripts aren't AI generated?

Brevity mostly. I'm sure they are partially ai generated, just not in a way that detracts from my enjoyment.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#258

Post by sbinnee »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #215
sbinnee wrote: post #134

As a senior engineer, I am getting extremely tired of reviewing AI slops. Today at work I have decided that I just have to build a POC project from scratch. I spent 2 weeks to review the code, to log the process, and to build toy examples to make my argument clear that some (actually most) parts were not working. The funny thing is that I know my manager got this “working” within a week with Claude. I had to spend 2…

Reading this, honestly, I'd say the problem is you then? Velocity is everything.

This is something even my manager wouldn’t say. I think he is feeling embarrassed from all the evidences. To be fair you didn’t read them. I agree that velocity is everything and as a manager they shouldn’t slow the team down.

Re: Stop Sloppypasta

#260

Post by sbinnee »

m_mueller wrote: post #207
sbinnee wrote: post #134

As a senior engineer, I am getting extremely tired of reviewing AI slops. Today at work I have decided that I just have to build a POC project from scratch. I spent 2 weeks to review the code, to log the process, and to build toy examples to make my argument clear that some (actually most) parts were not working. The funny thing is that I know my manager got this “working” within a week with Claude. I had to spend 2…

why is there even an expectation / requirement that a POC's code should be taken into production? wouldn't you be much faster to just regenerate from scratch, but this time with your proper architectural guidelines in a planning document and with proper code reviews in place?

I feel often codes from a manger do not go through rigorous code review process, especially if it is a POC. In my case, because of 1 to 10 signal to ratio, it was hard to pin point which parts actually did the jobs done. I am setting things properly this time, me as a maintainer. Thanks for commenting.
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