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Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

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Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#251

Post by DangitBobby »

stego-tech wrote: post #132

I really, really need folks to understand that deflecting blame away from the tool and trying to hold the human accountable feeds right into the marketing playbook of these companies in the first place. The cops cannot be held accountable because the laws basically give them immunity. The politicians cannot be held accountable beyond being tossed out at the next election, because the laws otherwise give them immunity…

Is there anything to suggest this sort of injustice isn't happening in low-tech all the time, constantly, all over the country, and the only reason it's getting attention here is because AI is involved?

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#252

Post by throwaway17_17 »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #238
stego-tech wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re going crazy because up until this exact moment you’ve never had to confront the reality that these tools, placed into the hands of the common man, are viewed as authoritative and lack any accountability or consequence for misuse. For anyone who has been victimized by law enforcement or governments before, we’ve been warning about this shit for decades . About the lack of consequence for police brutality. The l…

Your answer presumes we cannot hold people accountable. I think that is incorrect.

Do you mean hypothetically could society hold law enforcement personnel accountable for mistakes, bad judgement, flagrant criminal conduct, horrendous abuse of any and everyone? Certainly, a large scale and comprehensive restructuring of America’s law enforcement and prosecutorial system is legally possible.

However, I hold to the opinion that if you are discussing actual reality, based on decades (if not the entire period post civil war, for near certainty) of historical examples and the current “majority” position of the US electorate: there is a nearly unqualified NO. We cannot, or will not, hold law enforcement accountable for even intentional, planned, and malicious conduct in a vast majority of cases. There is practically no accountability at all, and that’s just for thoroughly proven intentional conduct. Bad judgement, alleged mistakes, etc are even less able to result in any action.

The reality of the legislation and precedent ensure it. It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#253

Post by DangitBobby »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #75

I read the article and I don’t really understand… she was held in a jail in Tennessee but the article states they flew her to North Dakota? And somehow she’s a fugitive so that’s why she doesn’t get bail? but she’s a fugitive held in her own state in a holding facility? But then when they release her, she’s in North Dakota? So if some state says you’re a fugitive your home state will just hold you in jail until they…

As a Tennessee resident I don't love learning that some dumb fuck state I want nothing to do with can call me a fugitive and my state will hold me prisoner without trial when said dumb fuck state finally decides is ready to deal with me.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#254

Post by throwaway17_17 »

kelnos wrote: post #142
pear01 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called qualified immunity. Many support its repeal. I hope you join them, and convey the same to your local representatives and candidates. Until it is reformed few if any officers or administrators of criminal justice in the United States will ever feel any type of accountability. Short of video evidence of blatant gun to the back of the head style homicide qualified immunity means most law enforcement official…

> Many support its repeal. There's nothing to repeal. Qualified immunity is a doctrine that the judicial branch made up out of thin air, with no legislative backing. But agreed, we need legislatures to write laws that expressly hold police accountable, and declare that they are not shielded from liability when things go wrong due to their own failures and negligence.

Not that it changes your point, but, um actually:

While the origins of qualified immunity are judicial, some State loved the idea so much the went and made it statutory too. Louisiana’s 2024 bill explicitly removes negligence as an exception (which is a valid method to circumvent qualified immunity based on jurisprudence at the federal and most state levels). Louisiana requires intentional violations or criminal actions to even be able to bring a claim.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#255

Post by fc417fc802 »

mothballed wrote: post #173
djoldman wrote: post #172

I wish we saw more invocations of speedy trial rights. Trials MUST begin for felony charges in ND within 90 days of a defendant invoking those rights (must be invoked within 14 days of arraignment)[0]. [0] https://ndlegis.gov/cencode/t29c19.pdf

Defendants don't invoke that because in most states and federally, they build the case against you slowly over a long period of time before arrest, then stall as long as possible for discovery, then when they finally fulfill discovery they overwhelm you with a bunch of useless stuff so that it takes forever to get the useful information. Invoking right to speedy trial means the prosecution gets a very strong advantag…

I don't think it's a sensible interpretation of the constitution given the massive asymmetry of the situation. The state should be obligated without exception to either provide for a speedy trial or to release the defendant while the state figures its shit out. It should not be a right that can be waived. Meanwhile a defendant who's been arrested should generally be given as much time as he'd like to put together his defense.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#256

Post by DangitBobby »

conartist6 wrote: post #71
nkrisc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is a complete failure of the police and authorities. They made the decision to extradite her with such flimsy evidence.

If it didn't erase accountability, how would it create any value? Many people are treating this as a matter of philosophy, which it isn't. At a primitive, physiological level if you delegate to AI and most of the time you don't get in trouble for it, the resulting relationship you have with the AI could only be called "trust". If you're expected to be 40% more productive at your job, your employer is making it crysta…

The value is creates is obvious: finding a needle in a haystack. Is accountability laundering another potential benefit? Sure. Can we stop pretending we don't understand understand the other side of it? Cynicism is nice and all but after a certain point it eventually wraps around and makes us look naive.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#257

Post by fc417fc802 »

chmod775 wrote: post #242
lokar wrote: post #193

This is a badly written story. It should explain if she saw a judge or had a lawyer.

You must have been reading something else, because this article includes all of that information. > In Tennessee, she was given a court appointed lawyer for the extradition process. To fight the charges, she was told she would have to go to North Dakota. > Officers from North Dakota did not pick up Lipps from her jail cell in Tennessee until Oct. 30 — 108 days after her arrest. The next day she made her first appeara…

Seems odd that the extradition process apparently doesn't require more than vibes.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#258

Post by throwaway17_17 »

deepsun wrote: post #160
wat10000 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When are cops ever treated the same way as the rest of us?

Well in most cases I would prefer to have a cop's word to outweigh a word of an average joe.

The belief by a juror that law enforcement personnel, especially phrased as a belief that applies to law enforcement personnel as a generic group, is a well established basis for a challenge for cause leading to exclusion of that person from being a juror. The US jury system is build explicitly on excluding these types of belief in juries in order to ensure fairness, impartiality, and individual and case/witness specificity of “triers-of-fact”.

I could understand someone who disagrees with it, but your position would be antithetical to current and historical thought on what defines a fair jury.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#259

Post by fc417fc802 »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #75

I read the article and I don’t really understand… she was held in a jail in Tennessee but the article states they flew her to North Dakota? And somehow she’s a fugitive so that’s why she doesn’t get bail? but she’s a fugitive held in her own state in a holding facility? But then when they release her, she’s in North Dakota? So if some state says you’re a fugitive your home state will just hold you in jail until they…

I believe each state has its own extradition process. In this scenario think of them more like the countries in the EU. Apparently Tennessee doesn't adequately protect its residents.

Re: Innocent woman jailed after being misidentified using AI facial recognition

#260

Post by wvenable »

selcuka wrote: post #203
wvenable wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The city or state gets sued and they pay the result from the taxpayer funds and literally nobody learns anything, especially not the hard way. Everyone is so completely divorced, and in some cases immune, from consequences that this will change nothing.

After a couple million dollar lawsuits the city or state will learn to be more careful with their methods. It's the taxpayer funds, but it's not an endless supply of money. Cities and states have their own budgets.

More than $1.5 billion has been spent to settle claims of police misconduct involving thousands of officers repeatedly accused of wrongdoing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/20...

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