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How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

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Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#251

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

joenot443 wrote: post #33

Have any parents tried Elimination Communication? Basically teaching your baby to inform you that they’re ready to go, and taking them to the toilet immediately. This is something my partner wants to try when we eventually have kids. Something I’d never heard of until last week. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

Every baby is different. Some are relaxed, others are highly strung. Some will happily sit in a comfortable seat, others will demand to be held. Some will feed quickly, others will take their time. Some will sleep in a crib from the day they're born, others will need practice. Some will be happy, others will cry for hours for no apparent reason.

Every family is different. Some parents have lots of external support, others have none. Some parents have generous parental leave, others have to return to work almost immediately.

What's common is that babies have a constant, high-frequency stream of demands that need to be met by an adult in the household (need food, attention, comfort, to be cleaned, to be dressed, to sleep, etc.). Meeting these demands typically requires the full attention of an adult in the moment, but there's also some amount of preparation and cleanup that needs to be done. That stuff has to be done by another adult, or if one is not available, fit around the immediate demands of the baby. You can't effectively fold the laundry and comfort a crying baby simultaneously.

All of this to say: elimination communication is known to work, but whether it will work for your family will depend heavily on your specific baby and your specific family circumstances.

When you commit to EC, you are committing to another immediate demand that needs an adult's full attention in the moment. If your baby is otherwise not very demanding, or if you have a lot of external support this may work well for your family. Lots of parents, though, opt to use nappies specifically because it shifts an immediate demand ("I'm pooping") into a problem that can be solved within the next few minutes.

If you're the only adult in the house, you've got a big armful of clean laundry, and you see your baby making the poop face do you want to drop the laundry and rush to the toilet or do you want to fold the laundry and then change the baby? Your answer will be different depending on how much time in the day your family has to get the laundry done.

Parenting influencers don't share the broader context of their families or their babies. And like all influencers, many of them are liars and do not practice what they preach. EC is in vogue right now, so a lot of them are advocating for it. I personally find the idea quite appealing but our family simply did not have the time or circumstances to even attempt it.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#252

Post by kannanvijayan »

apexalpha wrote: post #153
kannanvijayan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used cloth diapers for our son for about 8 months, and then it just got to be too much of a hectic nightmare washing the poop cloths between work and other issues. So we did disposables for about two years. We were having a hard time getting him trained off of the diapers, until one day we just decided to follow some advice we'd heard and took them off and let him go diaperless on the floors (thankfully wooden)..…

>Just thought I'd pass along the one training suggestion I have. Cloth or disposable.. when you're ready for them to move off it - it really helps if they're able to see and associate their bowel and bladder movements with the physical artifacts. Cloth diapers help a lot with this. It's one of the reasons kids on cloth diapers are usually much earlier trained. Modern diapers are so good there's essentially no feedbac…

That's why we started with cloth. We just didn't have the tenacity to pull through and gave in within a year.

I agree that the modern diaper is so good that it effectively disconnects the feeling of evacuation from the consequence of it.

I think the other thing kids pick up on when you're mopping up their floor leavings is the grossness aspect, which is a bit more learned. They see you grimacing every time you touch it - they see you taking care to ensure that it doesn't get on other parts of your body. Toddlers watch body language and reactions a lot to understand how they should relate to things.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#253

Post by kannanvijayan »

abustamam wrote: post #173
kannanvijayan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used cloth diapers for our son for about 8 months, and then it just got to be too much of a hectic nightmare washing the poop cloths between work and other issues. So we did disposables for about two years. We were having a hard time getting him trained off of the diapers, until one day we just decided to follow some advice we'd heard and took them off and let him go diaperless on the floors (thankfully wooden)..…

> let him go diaperless on the floors (thankfully wooden).. and he trained in a couple days. This terrifies me! We have carpets. Some tile, but also some carpets. I guess it's not too different from when the cats have an "accident" though, just bigger messes.

If you're considering it for real and the carpet issue a real concern, the solution I've seen is one of those large plastic/rubber/foam playmats.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#254

Post by abustamam »

bombcar wrote: post #222
abustamam wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we don't qualify for SNAP (as an aside I'd be curious how many HNers do qualify). My area also has a program called WIC (women infant children) which I'm pretty sure covers diapers but not totally sure.

WIC doesn’t cover diapers, only food, and very specific ones at that. It’s easy enough to qualify for both even at HN salaries, you just need to have enough kids.

I'd posit that it may be simple, but having more kids is certainly not easy!

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#255

Post by abustamam »

caminante wrote: post #248
bombcar wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very likely. A container of formula runs about $25 and contains 1800 calories (my count may be off). Considering the mother is often trying to lose babyweight I think you can find 1800 calories cheaper. The main thing is that for many, formula is paid for via support programs, but unless you're down on SNAP you don't get diapers AFAIK.

No way. This quick math doesn't make sense and seems grossly shortsighted. (1) You have to ingest more than 1800 calories to get 1800 calories of milk. I'm seeing a 1.25x multiplier at a minimum so 2250 cal. (2) That's already close to a full daily calorie intake (3 meals). (3) Kirkland formula is $13 per 2250 calories ($32/5400cal*2250cal). You're not beating $13 per 3 meals unless you're meal prepping. (4) This doe…

Every family is different. I haven't been a parent for long but at the end of the day there's no one way to optimize everything. You'll either spend time, energy, or money. Something that saves you money may drive you insane. The $100/mo is not worth your mental health.

My wife breastfeeds and pumps. She doesn't love it, but she doesn't mind it.

Also, I'm no pediatrician but vitamin loading via formula seems off to me. My daughter's pediatrician told us that while breastfeeding is preferable to formula for the bonding benefits, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter as long as the baby is eating enough. We do have to supplement vitamin D in either case, which we do with pumped milk.

I don't think there's a mathematical way to optimize anything in parenting. You just try stuff and see if it works. And maybe it works for a few weeks or months. But then it stops working. Then you adapt! Maybe breastfeeding will stop working soon. Maybe cloth diapers will stop working soon. Who knows? All I know is that I'm not gonna be showing my daughter and wife a spreadsheet to show what is optimal.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#256

Post by _DeadFred_ »

tetromino_ wrote: post #119
sfpotter wrote: post #88

Cloth diapers are good. We used them for our last kid with a diaper service and are going to do it again washing them ourselves with our next who is due at the end of the month. Regular diapers are useful to have either way. But cloth diapers are obviously much better for the environment and if they're an option for you, you should consider them. Not a hard concept, not worth a big discussion.

> But cloth diapers are obviously much better for the environment It's obvious only if you save and reuse the same set of cloth diapers for 2 or more babies. (Which places some constrains on brand, durability etc.) If you have only one kid, I am not sure which side is environmentally more friendly; growing and processing all that cotton (not to mention the plastic for all the waterproof covers) uses a lot of water an…

Do you wear clothes from the store without washing them? Imagine a product straight from a plastics factory constantly on your baby's skin, designed with chemicals to make them as convenient/effective/cheap as possible versus safe/minimal chemical exposure, covered in plastics dust from the process/other products being made in the factory from worse chemicals.

We used glass bottles and a diaper service (we're from Santa Cruz) and people made fun. Then right after there were questions about chemicals from plastic bottles and our friends understood.

A quick search to see if there are also concerns about diapers returns https://www.ehn.org/non-toxic-diapers

A service is super easy. You can still use disposable for edge cases if needed. Why risk wrapping your child in highest profit possible+maximum convenience chemical creations 24/7 for years? Convience+chemicals+corporate profit greed have proven to be the worst combination for healthy/safe products in our capitalist system.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#257

Post by caminante »

abustamam wrote: post #255
caminante wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. This quick math doesn't make sense and seems grossly shortsighted. (1) You have to ingest more than 1800 calories to get 1800 calories of milk. I'm seeing a 1.25x multiplier at a minimum so 2250 cal. (2) That's already close to a full daily calorie intake (3 meals). (3) Kirkland formula is $13 per 2250 calories ($32/5400cal*2250cal). You're not beating $13 per 3 meals unless you're meal prepping. (4) This doe…

Every family is different. I haven't been a parent for long but at the end of the day there's no one way to optimize everything. You'll either spend time, energy, or money. Something that saves you money may drive you insane. The $100/mo is not worth your mental health. My wife breastfeeds and pumps. She doesn't love it, but she doesn't mind it. Also, I'm no pediatrician but vitamin loading via formula seems off to m…

You seemed to defend claims that breastmilk trumped formula on price. That's wrong and shortsighted, yet people keep repeating these myths.

Adding new parameters contingent on discretionary priorities and resources is vastly more subjective.

Enjoy parenthood.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#258

Post by wktmeow »

joenot443 wrote: post #33

Have any parents tried Elimination Communication? Basically teaching your baby to inform you that they’re ready to go, and taking them to the toilet immediately. This is something my partner wants to try when we eventually have kids. Something I’d never heard of until last week. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

Yes, being born in the Soviet Union this is how my parents toilet trained me, and we did it with our daughter as well but were only able to catch it for defecation and not urination, but even having done that was so handy. She eventually would grunt to let us know, which as she learned to talk transitioned easily to a verbal cue. I think we had not had a soiled poopy diaper after I want to say 12 months old, but can’t remember exact age now. Potty training for urination came much easier after this as it wasn’t such a foreign concept.

It was not particularly difficult to implement and we didn’t spend a lot of time focusing on it - we caught it by being attentive a few times and it just got easier from there. Highly recommend it

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#259

Post by wktmeow »

rocmcd wrote: post #76
joenot443 wrote: post #33

Have any parents tried Elimination Communication? Basically teaching your baby to inform you that they’re ready to go, and taking them to the toilet immediately. This is something my partner wants to try when we eventually have kids. Something I’d never heard of until last week. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

As a parent, this is a hilarious comment. This is like saying "why don't you just teach your cat to use the toilet instead of using a litter box?". I mean, yeah, that sounds awesome. Given infinite time and energy, I'm sure it's possible. Best of luck to you, though. And I don't say that to be rude or disparaging, it's just that parenting is a little like war: your plans never survive contact with the enemy. I had si…

It’s really not at all as difficult as you’re making it out to be.

Re: How Big Diaper absorbs billions of extra dollars from American parents

#260

Post by sfpotter »

sfpotter wrote: post #184
tetromino_ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But cloth diapers are obviously much better for the environment It's obvious only if you save and reuse the same set of cloth diapers for 2 or more babies. (Which places some constrains on brand, durability etc.) If you have only one kid, I am not sure which side is environmentally more friendly; growing and processing all that cotton (not to mention the plastic for all the waterproof covers) uses a lot of water an…

We kept the diapers from our diaper service and the covers. The washing machines used by the service are much beefier and can handle these kind of loads easily, and will generally be more water efficient. We also got a good number of used diapers on Offer Up. When we're done with our diapers, we will rehome them instead of throwing them out. How does this change your calculations?

Oops, talked to my wife and realized I got a detail wrong: we did not keep the diapers from the service, we gave them back. And the diapers we got from the service were almost surely used by plenty of other people before.

Someone else on here seemed confused about the logistics off the service. We lived in Brooklyn at the time. A big truck would drive around our neighborhood and pick up and drop off diapers from many people throughout the neighborhood at once. More amortization at work.

Also, one more thing: we're big on line drying. We will primarily line dry these diapers instead of drying them in a machine.

Oh, and one MORE thing: we got our current washer and dryer free from a friend who was about to throw them out when replacing them.

There are so many ways to mitigate and reduce environmental impact beyond the simple-minded apples-to-apples comparison many in this thread seem to be doing.

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