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Keep Your Identity Small

paulgraham.com

251–260 of 267 posts

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#251
Only had time to skim the comments but here's mine anyways. Your essay has a lot to do with a self perpective and the balance between objectivity and subjectivity in a belief system. It kind of splits people into two groups Objective and Subjective with a bias towards objective being "better" - smallness of self tends toward objectivity.

Going further, the only two types of people in the world are those that split people into two groups and those that don't

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#252
I don't see how scientific identity falls outside identity politics. Humans have a tribalistic genetic heritage, and so we behave this way.

I would say that the better you understand your identity, the better positioned you are to escape a slavish defense of it.

But you also have to be careful not to avoid conversations just because they are difficult. Religion and politics are in one sense two sides of the same coin. It might be better to contrast religion and democracy.

Just because the answers aren't easy to access doesn't mean the struggle to find them isn't worth having. ...no matter how messy.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#253
Not sure about the identity bit, been very sure of who I am since I was a small boy and so not interested in what others presume. I don’t get caught up in arguing anything that is based only on belief or opinion. Believe whatever you like.

In your definition of ‘scientist’ do you include medical doctors?

During a period of seriously ill health I saw a clutter of ‘ highly respected specialists ‘ — by some! In the course of which I was told with varying degrees of anger and arrogance that: acupuncture; chiropractic treatment and hypnosis did not work, could not work and that those who believed in them were either idiots or delusional.

Interestingly the attempts, by those who bothered, to explain results obtained were so far off the planet that tooth fairies, father christmas and honest politicians were decidedly ordinary every day events.

Then there is a book, forbidden science where people like the Wright Brothers, Thomas Edison and a host of others were written off as either delusional or charlatans, perhaps both, or worse by the scientists of their day.

(Everybody knew that heavier than air machines could not fly! )

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#254
I think basically there are only two things: Facts and Illusions. Non-living entities can never have illusions and they are governed by just plain facts.And so these non-living entities can be objective and perform efficiently. For living entities, facts are still important, but illusions are what gives meaning to life.Identity is one such illusion. An historical example is the biblical theory that earth is the center of the universe. It was a comfortable idea because it gave importance to human beings as the center of creation.So what I realized after reading the essay is that one should know about differences between illusions and facts and do not get carried away by illusions to cause conflicts. Illusions are pleasant, just like good graphics in a video game (although with poor graphics also one can implement the same game logic).

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#255
post #60
post #8

I think I concur that in educated discussions Identity does not help, but I have been thinking through the importance of identity for a while. I think in many situations identity gives you strength. I have an identity within Y Combinator, with my family, with people that went to my University, in the countries I have lived in etc. These fragments of my identity all give me strength, it means I would help people out t…

You're right. That's why I was careful to qualify it with "all other things being equal." In general identity gives you strength while making you stupid. This can sometimes be a good trade, especially in stressful situations. E.g. I think this is one reason people in the US are so much more religious than they were when I was a kid. People who 30 years ago might have been skeptical of preachers are now thinking that…

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Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#256
post #60
post #8

I think I concur that in educated discussions Identity does not help, but I have been thinking through the importance of identity for a while. I think in many situations identity gives you strength. I have an identity within Y Combinator, with my family, with people that went to my University, in the countries I have lived in etc. These fragments of my identity all give me strength, it means I would help people out t…

You're right. That's why I was careful to qualify it with "all other things being equal." In general identity gives you strength while making you stupid. This can sometimes be a good trade, especially in stressful situations. E.g. I think this is one reason people in the US are so much more religious than they were when I was a kid. People who 30 years ago might have been skeptical of preachers are now thinking that…

[deleted]

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#257
post #60
post #8

I think I concur that in educated discussions Identity does not help, but I have been thinking through the importance of identity for a while. I think in many situations identity gives you strength. I have an identity within Y Combinator, with my family, with people that went to my University, in the countries I have lived in etc. These fragments of my identity all give me strength, it means I would help people out t…

You're right. That's why I was careful to qualify it with "all other things being equal." In general identity gives you strength while making you stupid. This can sometimes be a good trade, especially in stressful situations. E.g. I think this is one reason people in the US are so much more religious than they were when I was a kid. People who 30 years ago might have been skeptical of preachers are now thinking that…

Paul's essays are quite objective and plain scientific analysis of things with no subjective emotions attached.They are quite brilliant in that sense. But still life is not governed by plain facts. Emotions are also important and emotions are what differentiate living from non-living.Sense of identity is governed by emotions. But still as I think in some more depth, even emotions appear to be manifestation of the fact that our genes are engineered to sustain itself and propagate. And since in the presence of a given complex external stimuli, it is difficult to take decisions with in the constraint of limited processing ability of the brain, emotions help in coming with some decision. And this decision may or may not be correct. Emotions can be thought of as the memorization of some decisions for some patterns of external stimuli.So finally everything seems to be quite deterministic with cause and effect relationships.So I am just perturbed and want to know whether there is a free will? And as I understand about probability, it just quantifies how much we don't know ( bit amusing in the sense that we quantify something which we don't know...and that is done using statistics which again makes it somewhat deterministic ).

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#258
For those who don't think it's possible to argue about such technical subjects (with a threshold for expertise) as JavaScript, take a look at any recent conversation involving mathematics and the infamous JSH on the sci.math USENET group. (I'm not posting a link, but just Google "sci.math".)

JSH is an amateur pseudo-mathematician who believes (falsely) that he has solved numerous difficult problems in mathematics...he has his own proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, he has (most recently) proposed a (wrong) solution to the integer factorization problem, he has attempted to solve the Traveling Salesman problem, etc.

My point is not that JSH is not very good at math, but rather that there are people who hate this guy more than Hitler. People waste hours bashing him, trying to diagnose psychiatric conditions that they believe he has (the consensus seems to be "narcissistic personality disorder"), and generally tearing this guy to shreds. Over math.

Here's a brief excerpt from a recent conversation about JSH's factoring algorithm:

"Do you realize you are full of s---? You have nothing! You can't demonstrate remarkable claims on a worthwhile problem. That is [sic] classi[c] snake oil salesman, charlatan and cheat. It speaks of your narcissism! Get your head out of your a--! You have zero!"

Anyway, does anyone really think that mathematics is a part of these people's identities? I found the essay thought-provoking as well...but anything can be controversial. The people involved in this thread DO have expertise, and they definitively know that JSH is wrong. This doesn't stop them from spending hours hashing out their arguments. Why can't they just ignore him?

I think, quite honestly, that some people just find it fun/stimulating to argue with and insult each other.

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#259
post #258

For those who don't think it's possible to argue about such technical subjects (with a threshold for expertise) as JavaScript, take a look at any recent conversation involving mathematics and the infamous JSH on the sci.math USENET group. (I'm not posting a link, but just Google "sci.math".) JSH is an amateur pseudo-mathematician who believes (falsely) that he has solved numerous difficult problems in mathematics...h…

Just I have this thought that if the world is not what it is...and everyone followed basic logic, then the world would have been a dull place to live in. No colors, just everything in black and white based on some accepted commonsense...it is the diversity that gives color to life. I hope your JSH is enjoying this attention and bashing in that forum:-)

Re: Keep Your Identity Small

#260
post #258

For those who don't think it's possible to argue about such technical subjects (with a threshold for expertise) as JavaScript, take a look at any recent conversation involving mathematics and the infamous JSH on the sci.math USENET group. (I'm not posting a link, but just Google "sci.math".) JSH is an amateur pseudo-mathematician who believes (falsely) that he has solved numerous difficult problems in mathematics...h…

Just I have this thought that if the world is not what it is...and everyone followed basic logic, then the world would have been a dull place to live in. No colors, just everything in black and white based on some accepted commonsense...it is the diversity that gives color to life. I hope your JSH is enjoying this attention and bashing in that forum:-)

I forgot to add one important thing...the brain cells need something different everytime to propagate and prosper (whatever that means), and the best inputs to brain are not the same recurring patterns but totally new and diversified patterns.
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