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Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

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Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#251

Post by schwartzworld »

solomonb wrote: post #238
schwartzworld wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have a fundamental problem with human expression. How up to date is this opinion of yours? Expression on guitar is pretty intuitive, but modern electronic instrument manufacturers have been working on this problem and created modes of expression that definitely solve this problem. For example, EWIs allow you to use breath control for expression with many of the same techniques available on actual wind instruments.…

> What makes a guitar more expressive than a cello or trumpet with a pickup/mic running through effect The difference lies in the pickup! On those other instruments you will be using a contact mic (piezo-transducer) wheras the solid body guitar is using an inductive coil. The contact mic is going to pickup only physical resonance whereas the the coil is measuring an electromagnetic field. Plucking the steel string in…

So the difference in expression is in the oscillator type?

Are we using the same definition of "expressive"? I play synth, guitar and trumpet, and the trumpet is by far the most expressive of the three, both musically and physically. You have basically all the same options for expression that you do with a human voice (vibrato, dynamics, glissando, etc) plus the expressive techniques offered by the instrument mechanics (for example: half-valving, trills, lip slurs, using a plunger as a LPF).

Sure you need a microphone or contact mic, but again that's just your source of your oscillator. After that, sound design is just sound design. I'm not saying everybody should play electric trumpet, but it's just absurd to make blanket statements like "electric guitar is the most expressive electronic instrument".

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#252

Post by ikety »

racl101 wrote: post #235
arrowsmith wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible what people were able to accomplish with their free time before smartphones

In general complete devotion to the craft by constantly practicing like it is a habit and not just when inspiration strikes is essential. One could argue this lack of devotion predates even the smartphone. Heck, I remember getting a Nintendo Entertainment System in the late '80s and then not going out biking or playing basketball as a result.

Ironically these days you might have a better chance making a living from playing video games compared to any physical activity.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#253

Post by tclancy »

zigman1 wrote: post #160
tclancy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, you won’t be thanking me once it consumes your life. Join us. We all float down here.

Omg man, thanks for ruining my life! I wish I would have this when I was obsessed with it as a teenager in 2010s, and no one else liked similar music.

It's what I am here for. Literally.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#254

Post by solomonb »

schwartzworld wrote: post #251
solomonb wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes a guitar more expressive than a cello or trumpet with a pickup/mic running through effect The difference lies in the pickup! On those other instruments you will be using a contact mic (piezo-transducer) wheras the solid body guitar is using an inductive coil. The contact mic is going to pickup only physical resonance whereas the the coil is measuring an electromagnetic field. Plucking the steel string in…

So the difference in expression is in the oscillator type? Are we using the same definition of "expressive"? I play synth, guitar and trumpet, and the trumpet is by far the most expressive of the three, both musically and physically. You have basically all the same options for expression that you do with a human voice (vibrato, dynamics, glissando, etc) plus the expressive techniques offered by the instrument mechani…

My whole point is about comparing electric/electronic instruments. I NEVER said that the guitar is the best acoustic instrument. I explained how there is a difference between the way a guitar works with a coil pickup versus other instruments with a contact mic but you don't care.

I don't really want to keep arguing with you. You can win the thread if you want. Congratulations!

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#255

Post by fuzzfactor »

pdntspa wrote: post #37
solomonb wrote: post #21

I strongly believe that if you set aside genre preferences the solid body electric guitar coupled to a tube amplifier is objectively the greatest electronic instrument ever created. All other electronic instruments, with the one exception being the Theramin, have a fundamental problem with human expression. There is an unsolvable disconnect between what the performer's actions and their audience. See: https://www.scr…

> There is an unsolvable disconnect between what the performer's actions and their audience Is that really true though? If I watch a cellist play I can pretty clearly see all the things they are doing and it will correlate neatly to the timbre of the sound. Secondly I think it's important to note the tube amp and the guitar are seperable, and I don't think that their connection is particularly magical. I can reamp a…

>the tube amp and the guitar are seperable

Eminently separable, but it's good to be aware of the tradeoffs.

Not magic at all, physics.

It's good to understand that high-impedance is not the biggest deal, but one thing about the magnetic pickups that not everybody realizes is the way that plugging directly into a tube (pre)amp basically magnetically couples the strings to the grid of the input tube.

And that grid has no further physical connection to any other components in the circuit, not even within the same tube, except for clouds of electrons and the flow that occurs among the electrodes.

That way your music basically starts out being sprayed through space directly from the strings which create the magnetic signal.

The thing about high-impedance is the way the relatively minuscule resistor values between the amp's input jack and the input grid's tube pin are so insignificant by comparison to the pickup internal impedance, that resistance might as well be zero.

The only reason there is a resistor in between the input jack and the input grid anyway is to accommodate a high-impedance input with better stability under wider conditions than otherwise.

Now you can get a righteous sound with any number of pedals in between the guitar & amp, especially if the battery power is used to boost the signal to more than the guitar puts out magnetically, and it's been the mainstream for so long people almost never consider doing it any other way.

It's just not the same magnetic coupling from the strings to the tube, you can't have both unless it's a tube pedal.

I've designed lots of solid state circuits too and there is plenty of excellence when coupling the same magnetic pickup directly to a silicon or germanium crystal lattice and going from there. Whether it's pedals or a pure solid-state amp. Instead of using any tubes at all.

Also some people prefer having tubes only for the audio output section, coupled to the magnetic speakers through the antique-style audio output transformer the old-fashioned way.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#257

Post by cousin_it »

zigman1 wrote: post #248
cousin_it wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, to me Hendrix and Knopfler feel kinda like creative opposites. Knopfler plays much cleaner and with much more variety, he has written many songs that are catchy in different ways (which is almost impossible for any musician), he basically achieves every goal that a beginner musician could choose to chase. And yet his stuff feels like a creative dead end, a dreary road leading to adult contemporary. Whi…

I think what you are trying to say is that Hendrix captured a specific sound and won over a generation of listeners, while Knoplfer displayed a mastery of the instrument, rarely seen in the mainstream. However, don't underestimate him, they sold out Wembley 16 nights in a row in '85, I am sure that spring some bands. It's now a bit forgotten, but for a period of few years, Dire Straits were the biggest band in the wo…

The guitarist most frequently named as favorite by famous guitarists is Hendrix, second is Van Halen. Also often named are SRV, Jimmy Page and so on. I don't know anyone famous who names Knopfler as favorite.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#258

Post by defrost »

cousin_it wrote: post #257
zigman1 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you are trying to say is that Hendrix captured a specific sound and won over a generation of listeners, while Knoplfer displayed a mastery of the instrument, rarely seen in the mainstream. However, don't underestimate him, they sold out Wembley 16 nights in a row in '85, I am sure that spring some bands. It's now a bit forgotten, but for a period of few years, Dire Straits were the biggest band in the wo…

The guitarist most frequently named as favorite by famous guitarists is Hendrix, second is Van Halen. Also often named are SRV, Jimmy Page and so on. I don't know anyone famous who names Knopfler as favorite.

It's subjective, guitarists such as Knopfler, Clapton, Belew, Fripp, et al all rank highly for many.

I', m not sure I'd trust the judgement of any with a single absolute favourite , reality is generally rich with competing strengths and weaknesses.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#259

Post by dwd »

jawilson2 wrote: post #250
dwd wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video might be the best explanation for Creep, which while they never wanted to record it; they do acknowledge it set them up to be able to do everything since. But a lot of Pablo Honey is mediocre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlhaJqqIfCE This is also cool; live version of How to Disappear Completely at the start and one of the few Jonny interviews where he speaks. From a documentary on the Ondes Martinot. h…

Very cool! I'm confused why you didn't link the video of Radiohead wearing all black and playing at MTV Spring Break :-). I was VERY deep into Radiohead in college (early 2000s), and love all of these videos; I'm pretty sure I've seen that 2nd video footage around the time of the Kid A tour, but the dates are wrong. Kid A is probably one of my 5 deserted island albums.

I was never an MTV viewer, and came by Radiohead through JJJ radio (Australia).

My ah-ha moment was the release of Ok Computer. First heard the album driving in my car and was instantly blown away. Before that Creep, the singles from the Bends were just some of the better BritPop stuff I was into at the time.

Saw them early '98 on the tour which cemented them as my favourite band. They played Creep, but the high point was going out on Street Spirit.

Re: Jimi Hendrix was a systems engineer

#260

Post by shermantanktop »

schwartzworld wrote: post #195
shermantanktop wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With your cable in your right hand, it is easier to plug into the right side of a pedal. If you were to try to do the equivalent with your left, the guitar neck would be a little bit in the way as well.

But you have to plug cables into both sides... Also you set your pedals up before you actually start playing.

Typical modern practice would be to have a pedal board with all interconnects and power set up and fixed. Hendrix didn’t do that, but EVH did. And now the internet is full of people posting their pedalboards (P&W people especially).

But you still have to plug in from the right with the guitar cord, and from the left for the card to the amp. So I dunno, my theory may be bogus. But this pattern got established very early on, by the late 60s st the latest.

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