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Why isn't LA repaving streets?

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Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#251

Post by kev009 »

yearolinuxdsktp wrote: post #222
kev009 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are incorrectly assuming the Esclade isn't on 32+" tires with 285+mm width and the Wagoneer isn't on pizza cutters. Tire size has increased greatly on SUV and light trucks, which exerts less ground pressure. It's not realistic to do this on a heavy truck, which run 110+ PSI on heavy wall tires and why they cause the power law damage to roads.

No way does the Escalade exert less ground pressure! Firstly, a Wagoneer is never on pizza cutters. You can't put a 4500lb car on pizza cutters even in 1990! It came with 235/75R15 tires. They are big sidewall donuts, but no pizza cutters. The Escalade runs 285/40R24 tires, that's wide and low-profile. Widening a tire increases ground pressure, because low-profile tires have massive amount of reinforcement to prevent…

The tire spring rate is not what is "felt" by the road every bump, there is forward motion and coilover suspensions in modern cars running low profile tires versus solid axles and leafs on the Wagoneer, but yes nearly every modern vehicle ships on low profile tires unfortunately.

We are talking a few hundred pounds of weight difference per tire, it simply doesn't matter in the real world. I maintain private roads and even if your parkway is placarded everything is subjected to vocational vehicles and HDTs whether signed or not, because work needs to be done and local deliveries are exempt from transit restrictions.

The road wear model is obviously simplified versus the real world, the power law accurately enough extrapolates to HDT axle loads. You can drive a vehicle above snow, or move million pound super loads without causing excessive wear by thinking in additional dimension.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#253

Post by ndriscoll »

scoofy wrote: post #231
ndriscoll wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia says the GDP of the LA metro is ~1.5T. I think they could handle 1B in bonds. If they choose not to, it's not because it's some impossibility. Certainly not because roads are impossibly expensive.

I said general obligation bonds, not general liabilities. These technically are what makes this discussion so difficult. My point is that much of what the city can tax has little to do with the city's GDP. Either the landscape of the city will have to change or the current taxation paradigm will have to change.

What they can tax does have to do with the GDP though. If they have a 1B deficit, they need to somehow tax Again, putting $1B in some perspective, the LA Unified School District budget (which is county-level, so not directly comparable to the city, but anyway) is just under $19B. Maybe someone else can ballpark how much of that is associated to the city. Or look the other things that scale with population: police, medical, waste, social programs, etc.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#254

Post by deepsun »

GorbachevyChase wrote: post #92
deepsun wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that cars have negligible impact on roads. 99% damage comes from heavy haul trucks, especially those who violate weight restrictions. By the way, I've never seen SCALES OPEN sign for the trucks, it's always SCALES CLOSED, or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky.

I designed highways. This is correct, and this is why weight restrictions exist. Noncompliance is not that much of an issue, and there are occasional permitted loads anyway when there’s a need to haul industrial equipment or unusually large objects. The most important thing to remember about flexible, pavement lifespan is that asphaltic pavements are not designed to last forever. The asphalt binder will eventually ox…

Thank you. What about concrete pavements? I assume they can last longer, but I often see badly cracked concrete. Regular (expansion?) cracks also don't increase riding comfort.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#256

Post by iJohnDoe »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #13

US cities over the past decade seem to be in a competition to see who can be the least competently run.

Basically, every city hall is like the show Parks and Recreation from a competency situation. Then it’s about rubbing each other’s back and staying in power.

You have to jump through hurdles to get hired into a real position, or know someone that can sidestep those hurdles to get you hired, then once you’re in, it’s about staying there. This combination means you never do anything really useful, at least not quickly. The citizens take a backseat while the clowns in power perform in the circus.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#257

Post by array_key_first »

doug_durham wrote: post #127
scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

You use the phrase "trivially fix". If your definition of "trivially" means several decades with the investment of billions of dollars, then perhaps. There are no "trivial fixes" in city infrastructure. Re-zoning only works if there are developers who want to redevelop the land. For existing neighborhoods this means buying dozens of SFH from people who don't want to move. This drives the price of any development up m…

It's trivial in the sense that it's easier than not doing nothing, because rather than create problems what we've actually done is systematically installed impediments to solutions. We only need to remove impediments, and the solution finds itself.

Obviously that's very simplified, but the point is we've built this Tower of Babylon that exists around property value that is completely optional and just makes everything harder.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#258

Post by iJohnDoe »

nomel wrote: post #198
atleastoptimal wrote: post #13

US cities over the past decade seem to be in a competition to see who can be the least competently run.

I would like to see the relation between competence and strength of political alignment (as in, deviation from 50/50 red/blue vote for local government). I naively expect that less strongly aligned cities are run more competently, because the concept of "consequences" can exist. Where I am, there's a very strong political alignment, so no consequences at all. The same group of people will be voted for, no matter what…

> The same group of people will be voted for, no matter what they do.

This is more true than people realize. Basically, they choose each other in rotation who will be elected. Who will be the city manager and who will be the Mayor. They are all cronies and know how the system works.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#259

Post by scoofy »

ndriscoll wrote: post #253
scoofy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said general obligation bonds, not general liabilities. These technically are what makes this discussion so difficult. My point is that much of what the city can tax has little to do with the city's GDP. Either the landscape of the city will have to change or the current taxation paradigm will have to change.

What they can tax does have to do with the GDP though. If they have a 1B deficit, they need to somehow tax Again, putting $1B in some perspective, the LA Unified School District budget (which is county-level, so not directly comparable to the city, but anyway) is just under $19B. Maybe someone else can ballpark how much of that is associated to the city. Or look the other things that scale with population: police, me…

Again, they have $1B in the current deficit. The have $1B in outstanding bonds. They have myriad other outstanding obligations that won't show up on the balance sheet for 20+ years.

Strong Towns wrote an entire piece on this: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2025-10-27-ground-zero-l...

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#260

Post by renjimen »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #225
renjimen wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't do without garbage trucks though

- have less garbage - collect garbage more frequently in smaller trucks taiwan has very cute small garbage trucks and they have a ice-cream-truck like song signalling for people to bring whatever trashbags they have out to the truck, so you don't even have piles of garbage outside for days waiting for the weekly truck. quite nice.

Having less garbage is a whole other issue. Small utility vehicles makes a lot of sense but doesn't seem to be the way it's done in NA. Maybe it’s a labour cost thing. But even the long haul trucks are huge here compared to the rest of the world. They haul the same amount but the cab and engine are enormous. Maybe because the roads are wider they can just make everything bigger.
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