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Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

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Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#251

Post by bastawhiz »

delichon wrote: post #31
londons_explore wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Open is open. Beyond DDoS protections, there should be no limits. If load on the server is a concern, make the whole database available as a torrent. People who run scrapers tend to prefer that anyway. This isn't someone's hobby project run from a $5 VPS - they can afford to serve 10k qps of readonly data if needed, and it would cost far less than the salary of 1 staff member.

Rate limiting is a DDoS protection.

Pedantically: rate limiting is DoS prevention, not DDoS prevention. If you rate limit per IP, you're not mounting effective protection against a distributed attack. If you're rate limiting globally, you're taking your service offline for everyone.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#252

Post by hackable_sand »

blell wrote: post #115
pjc50 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimes are committed by individuals. "Immigrants" is a group. Prosecution of sexual assault is often handled extremely badly. It needs to be done better, without fear or favor, including people who are friends with the police or in positions of power. As we're seeing the fallout of the Epstein files.

Immigration policy is one of the most important things people vote for in an election. We need transparent crime data so we can make an informed vote.

Immigration policy has nothing to do with crime

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#253

Post by vimda »

charcircuit wrote: post #249
reactordev wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions? No thanks.” 1000x this. It’s one thing to have a felony for manslaughter. It’s another to have a felony for drug possession. In either case, if enough time has passed, and they have shown that they are reformed (long employment, life events, etc) then I think it should be removed from consideration. Not expunge…

The AI should decide if it's still relevant or not. People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character and this should influence them to always do the right thing.

I find this a weird take. Are you saying you _want_ unaccountable and profit driven third party companies to become quasi-judicial arbiters of justice?

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#254

Post by dirasieb »

londons_explore wrote: post #41
whizzter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open to research yes. Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions? No thanks. AI firms have shown themselves to be playing fast and loose with copyrighted works, a teenager shouldn't have their permanent AI profile become "shoplifter" because they did a crime at 15 yo that would otherwise have been expunged after a few years.

"court records are public forever" and "records of crimes expunged after X years" are incompatible. Instead, we should make it illegal to discriminate based on criminal conviction history. Just like it is currently illegal to discriminate based on race or religion. That data should not be illegal to know, but illegal to use to make most decisions relating to that person.

right, for example someone convicted of killing their parents should fit right into an elderly care home staff team and convicted child rapists should not be barred from working in an elementary school, protecting honest and innocent people from criminals is basically the same thing as racism!

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#255

Post by wredcoll »

charcircuit wrote: post #249
reactordev wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”Free to ingest and make someones crimes a permanent part of AI datasets resulting in forever-convictions? No thanks.” 1000x this. It’s one thing to have a felony for manslaughter. It’s another to have a felony for drug possession. In either case, if enough time has passed, and they have shown that they are reformed (long employment, life events, etc) then I think it should be removed from consideration. Not expunge…

The AI should decide if it's still relevant or not. People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character and this should influence them to always do the right thing.

> People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character

As if "character" was some kind of immutable attribute you are born with.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#256

Post by ferngodfather »

evaXhill wrote: post #3

Seems quite absurd that they would shut down the only system that could tell journalists what was actually happening in the criminal courts under the pretext that they sent information to a third-party AI company (who doesn’t these days). Here’s a rebuttal by one of the founders i believe: https://endaleahy.substack.com/p/what-the-minister-said

It's not the "only" system to be fair. CourtServe looks like it was built in the 90s but works "OK".

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#257

Post by charcircuit »

wredcoll wrote: post #255
charcircuit wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI should decide if it's still relevant or not. People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character and this should influence them to always do the right thing.

> People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character As if "character" was some kind of immutable attribute you are born with.

The way you are raised has a big impact on how you act the rest of your life. There is signal in this information, not just noise.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#258

Post by notahacker »

dash2 wrote: post #214
notahacker wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's actually paid any attention to the many documented failings of the child protection services in those cases knows the answer to that question is "yes".

The problem with that argument is that, IIRC, there is direct evidence that one reasons that the abuse was covered up was that authorities were afraid of being accused of racism and/or of stirring up ethnic tensions. I don't think that, to accept this, you need believe that CPS is always perfect when this issue is absent.

This is one of the factors that lead to crimes not being better investigated at the time, but then fear of tensions would cases where the alleged perpetrators were white and the victims/witnesses non-white as in the OP's question. (And more generally, teenage girls from working class backgrounds got far less sympathy and far more scepticism than they should have done from the police and CPS and even social workers when they talked about being sexually exploited regardless of race. Certainly no evidence was found they were much more keen to listen to non-white victims or prosecute white people...)

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#259

Post by charcircuit »

vimda wrote: post #253
charcircuit wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI should decide if it's still relevant or not. People should fully understand that their actions reflect their character and this should influence them to always do the right thing.

I find this a weird take. Are you saying you _want_ unaccountable and profit driven third party companies to become quasi-judicial arbiters of justice?

I am saying that it is not good if you had to hide information about yourself in order to get hired. Justice is provided by the courts.

Re: Ministry of Justice orders deletion of the UK's largest court reporting database

#260

Post by dirasieb »

JadeNB wrote: post #103
spacebanana7 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were hiring a childminder for your kids, would you want to know that they had 6 accusations for improper conduct around children in 6 different court cases - even if those were all acquittals?

As a parent, I would want to know everything about anyone who's going to be around my children in any capacity. That doesn't mean I have a right to it, though.

>openly admits his beliefs results in parents not making good decisions on who to allow near their children, keeps going anyway

great moral system you have there

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