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MIT Living Wage Calculator

livingwage.mit.edu

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Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#251

Post by cam_l »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246
legitster wrote: post #130

The older I get the more I realize how fraught the idea of a "living wage" is. Through mid life, your financial health is not as determined by wages, but by your family/connections. Do you have access to a grandmother who can babysit? A decent second-hand car? A good roommate situation? Just look at the expense table - any one of these things could be worth up to 20% of your income! And you see that literally right h…

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

>Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?”

Because if they don't, they are externalising the true costs of labour to the government, or the community.

Which is fine, by the way, but they cannot then turn around and oppose the cost of taxation needed for gov programs which support people who aren't receiving that living wage. Nor, and worse still, oppose a living wage and then force work people to work such long hours that they cannot sustain a community that can provide the extra support needed to maintain a decent life.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#252

Post by jandrewrogers »

lp4v4n wrote: post #238
jandrewrogers wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy anything in bulk, that isn't a prerequisite. There is no getting around the fact that $12/day buys a lot of good groceries even in expensive cities. Cooking is trivially learned, especially these days with the Internet. The people claiming that eating on $12/day is challenging are really saying that they can't support their affluent lifestyle on $12/day. Which is true! But it reeks of learned helplessness…

I used to live 80 minutes from my workplace and I had to get there by public transport because I didn't have a car, cooking at home and taking my food to work was not always possible, especially during the summer. And I used to live with three other flatmates and we shared a small fridge. I'm not making this up, it was my life a few years ago. I ended up spending more than what I wanted eating out because preparing m…

I don't know what to say. I've lived that life and worse. There were many issues with it but cost of food was never one of them. I ate out sometimes but not because I needed to.

Honestly, the worst part by far was transportation. Everything else kind of worked.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#253

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

cam_l wrote: post #251
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

>Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Because if they don't, they are externalising the true costs of labour to the government, or the community. Which is fine, by the way, but they cannot then turn around and oppose the cost of taxation needed for gov programs which support people who aren't receiving that living wage. Nor, and worse still, oppose a living wage and then force…

So in Forsyth County GA where I use to live you think the minimum wage should be $30/hour? That’s what they said the livable wage is for a single person. If I have a child and I’m single should I automatically get a raise if $45 an hour?

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#254

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

harshalizee wrote: post #250
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

What happens when private industry colludes to decide what "market" wages are? This has literally happened even in Big Tech, leading to lawsuits within the last decade. If a business can't pay a person working full time to satisfy their basic needs, their business model is not viable. If they can and don't pay so, it's plain exploitation. Ex. Walmart employees can't support themselves and rely on social services desp…

Do you feel the same way about all of the companies that are not profitable and only are in business because they have a website with “.ai” and they can get funding from YC?

While the first generation American has to scrounge up for a franchise that only nets $70K a year?

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#255

Post by deedubaya »

ninalanyon wrote: post #6

2080 hours per year! That's 52 weeks of 40 hours per week. It's also inhuman. Here in Norway we have five weeks of holiday plus various public holidays and only 37.5 hours per week adding up to about 1700 hours per year.

That’s 2080 paid hours per year. Inclusive of paid time off, holidays, etc.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#256

Post by nearbuy »

cam_l wrote: post #251
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

>Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Because if they don't, they are externalising the true costs of labour to the government, or the community. Which is fine, by the way, but they cannot then turn around and oppose the cost of taxation needed for gov programs which support people who aren't receiving that living wage. Nor, and worse still, oppose a living wage and then force…

> Because if they don't, they are externalising the true costs of labour to the government, or the community.

Does this mean anything or is it a circular definition?

If we decide we'd like people to have at least the standard of living of a single person earning $40/hour, does that make $40/hour the "true cost of labor"? Could we just as easily raise our standards and say $50/hour is the true cost?

The living wage is higher than what you would often have with no government intervention or safety net, so it's not a natural cost of labor in that sense.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#257

Post by NewJazz »

throwway120385 wrote: post #90
losvedir wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a private room is not the same as living alone (having a private apartment/house). I think it's reasonable for young people to have flatmates and share an apartment, for example.

Is it reasonable for two people who are dating to have to keep their shared apartment when they break up? What should happen if a roommate becomes flaky or moves out? These are all real situations that make me think that pinning "living wage" to a level where you have to have roommates is not a good goal. You're basically asking people to survive by accepting unstable living conditions and potentially taking stranger…

Seriously. Lots of people have roommates to save money. But they often meet those people socially, and sometimes those people flake on rent or just straight up dip out on the lease. And living with strangers an even tougher ask.

When did a 450 sqft studio apt become a luxury? Why should it? That's a tiny amount of space. People should be able to afford that.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#258

Post by NewJazz »

cozzyd wrote: post #134

The cost of childcare seems way underestimated, at least for young children. It shows $13,641 for my metro (Chicago), but day care costs are easily twice that. Obviously once kids are school-age this is much lower (if going to public school), so maybe that's how you get at this figure. On the other hand the transportation costs are way overestimated for non-car families (we spend less than $2k/year on local transit f…

If you look at their methodology, it says they use county level data for childcare costs. That can definitely understate rates in core urban areas, depending on the county limits.

Also, a lot of the data is at least a few years old now. And the new data that is made available has a fat asterisk on it, if it is from the feds.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#259

Post by tzs »

lp4v4n wrote: post #230
labcomputer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars were more affordable though. Eehhhh... I really don't think that's true. First, adjusted for inflation, new car prices really aren't that different than they were 10-30-50-70 years ago. You have to compare like for like, no cheating comparing a modern luxury car to Ford Pinto. For example the cheapest car in 1970 cost about $2000, with no frills like a radio, passenger wing mirror or floor matts. That's equiva…

>Because it is not at all obvious that that is, in fact, reality. It doesn't help to complain about easily-disprovable things like the affordability of cars. Well you can just search "why are cars so expensive" and then you will find dozens of articles like the one below. I'm not American but I have the impression that cars were a kind of milestone in the life of young people in the past and this disappeared due to a…

If you compare similar widely sold cars across decades prices are fairly level in constant dollars in the US, at least in the low to maybe mid range. For example when I was buying a new car a little under a year ago I looked at 2025 models of some of my earlier cars.

A 2025 Nissan Sentra was pretty similar in constant dollars to my 1982 Datsun Sentra. A 2025 Honda Civic was pretty close to my 1989 Civic. A 2025 Honda CR-V was pretty close to my 2006 CR-V.

The average new car price now is quite a bit higher in constant dollars than the average new car price decades ago, but that is because preferences have shifted to cars that are at more expensive places in the lineup.

My 2006 CR-V for example was more than my 1989 Civic in constant dollars, but CR-Vs are at a higher price point that Civics. If I had gotten another Civic in 2006 it would have been about the same as my 1989 Civic.

Re: MIT Living Wage Calculator

#260

Post by zozbot234 »

cam_l wrote: post #251
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Should we index on a single person living alone? A teenager living with their parents? A single mom of three kids? A single mom with a single disabled kid? Private industry should concentrate on paying people their market wages. Government should tax industries and individuals and provide a safety net. Let me tell you from first hand experie…

>Why is it the responsibility of private industry to support a “living wage?” Because if they don't, they are externalising the true costs of labour to the government, or the community. Which is fine, by the way, but they cannot then turn around and oppose the cost of taxation needed for gov programs which support people who aren't receiving that living wage. Nor, and worse still, oppose a living wage and then force…

The "true cost of labor" is set by the market. The cost to society of a person who can't find work because viable work opportunities have been destroyed by overregulation is unambiguously higher than that of the same person being gainfully employed, even for a "non-living" wage - because in the latter case it's easy for government to make up the difference in a way that's fair to everyone, whereas paying their full living costs is just that much harder.
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