Probably I will be impopular, but the best ferrari in the last 40 yrs is F-40 by engineer Materazzi. Designed all by him, except the japan mad turbo compressor.
Not unpopular at all. I think it's one of the best Ferrari ever made.
Luce: First Electric Ferrari
251–260 of 303 posts
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
At some point EVs will be cheaper on the sticker price and cheaper to run. The US car industry is desperately trying to prevent this, but it looks like China is crossing that point. (I would be very interested in sticker price / fuel price / subsidy / tax accounting EV vs ICE breakdowns from inside China)
I think they're already cheaper in China, especially on the low-end where (as per Vimes' Boots) sticker price matters more than TCO. China's got this, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV
That's extremely cute. The Euro version is as low as E13,000: https://nikrob.lt/ ; let's not forget that depreciation will make secondhand versions even cheaper.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#253Where is the car? All I see is a mock up dashboard that doesn't look very tangible. What does it look like? What does it sound like? What is it like to sit in the cockpit? How does it drive? This seems quite important to selling sports cars to me. This could almost be a commercial for selling for a perfume. Ow noes! No indicator stalks. No need to navigate roundabouts for Ferrari drivers. Going around corners is way too much fun for this car. It is Tesla all over again :S
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#254In case anyone was wondering what the Apple Car would have looked like inside, it would have been roughly this. As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferrari it's incredibly soulless and oversimplified. This Ive design aesthetic (Dieter Rams' aesthetic really) is fine on consumer electronics where you want the device to disappear and give way to the display, but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari esp…
EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to…
Molicel's P60 (INR-21700-P60C) weighs 75 grams and can produce almost a horsepower. A 500 horsepower battery weighs less than 42 kg. It stores 12 kWh.
Batteries are not heavy, range is heavy. Range is the sacrifice and sports cars don't need range.
> See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter?
As if ferrari -as if all sportscar manufacturers- have not done the same always. Replacing door handles with straps is not new.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Keep in mind that, especially for performance cars, the instant torque and low center of gravity (because those cells can go in the floor) really helps. Yes, the added weight is bad for handling which is a shame especially in a car like this. The weight savings aren't that big of a deal, they do that in every car and it's mostly marketing. But if you're one of those brands that can sell the same car, but use some fan…
The Porsche Taycan and related Audi e-tron GT are considered basically the best-handling production cars built so far, and these come in at around 2.4 tons or something. They are of course quite low for EVs, barely taller than a 911 iirc.
Even the ridiculous 1019 hp Taycan Turbo GT Weissach edition (a 4-door car with no rear seats, such are the compromises made for the track) at best achieved 7:07.55 around the Nurburgring.
A gas 911 GT3 RS with less than half the horsepower laps it in 6:49.3.
The 911 by most measures is the slower car (10.9s 1/4 mile vs 9.2s for the Taycan, 184mph top speed vs 190 etc). The difference is the 911s superior handling and braking and that mostly comes down to the difference in weight.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#256Porsche is the only car company that has nailed interior EV design - IMO. Their interiors look high-end, functional and not just a minimalist big computer screen. https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g46528574/2024-porsche-m...
beautiful. I hope the next thing to get out of car interiors is the black glossy plastic.
My car has it - shows EVERY spec of dust. Every finger smudge. Cleaning with a microfiber cloth left scratches.
The only thing I can think of is that it's designed to reduce resell value
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to…
From what I've heard from auto engineers I know, using the battery as part of the structure is not really done. Transfering mechanical stresses to the battery is something you just do not do. Additionally the battery must be protected in the event of the crash, so its casing must survive intact. I mean, it's possible that some manufacturers might do it a little bit to put it on the marketing brochure, but the additio…
> From what I've heard from auto engineers I know, using the battery as part of the structure is not really done. Transfering mechanical stresses to the battery is something you just do not do.
This is technically true, but structural batteries are not the same as stressed engines like on a motorcycle. In the latter, the engine fully replaces a frame member with essentially just the engine block. With structural batteries the cells themselves are not taking on any stress (they could, but yeah its not a very safe idea) but the outside containment is stil doing double duty. Its a pretty minor weight savings because the battery case does not need to be as strong as the frame does, but its not fair to say that structural batteries are not done. Even when they are just bolting on to a subframe, they're still usually doing things for frame stiffness.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to…
Molicel's P60 (INR-21700-P60C) weighs 75 grams and can produce almost a horsepower. A 500 horsepower battery weighs less than 42 kg. It stores 12 kWh. Batteries are not heavy, range is heavy. Range is the sacrifice and sports cars don't need range. > See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter? As if ferrari -as if all sportscar manufacturers- have not done the same always. Replacing doo…
The problem is people are conditioned so hard on the "drive till empty then fill up" method of car ownership, that it's totally incomprehensible to imagine not being able to put 300 miles in your car in 5 minutes.
Topping off everyday at home just doesn't register. Driving 7 hours with only one 30 minute charge doesn't register.
It either needs to function like a gas car, or it's not even worth considering.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#259Probably I will be impopular, but the best ferrari in the last 40 yrs is F-40 by engineer Materazzi. Designed all by him, except the japan mad turbo compressor.
I do not think this is an unpopular opinion at all. In fact, it's one of the most popular ones I believe.
Re: Luce: First Electric Ferrari
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Porsche Taycan and related Audi e-tron GT are considered basically the best-handling production cars built so far, and these come in at around 2.4 tons or something. They are of course quite low for EVs, barely taller than a 911 iirc.
Even the ridiculous 1019 hp Taycan Turbo GT Weissach edition (a 4-door car with no rear seats, such are the compromises made for the track) at best achieved 7:07.55 around the Nurburgring. A gas 911 GT3 RS with less than half the horsepower laps it in 6:49.3. The 911 by most measures is the slower car (10.9s 1/4 mile vs 9.2s for the Taycan, 184mph top speed vs 190 etc). The difference is the 911s superior handling an…
I wonder how a taycan with only enough cells to run a lap would perform.