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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#251

Post by poizan42 »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #221
poizan42 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but the paper says on page 8 > An adult in a bathing suit exposed to 1 minimal erythemal dose of ultraviolet radiation (a slight pinkness to the skin 24 h after exposure) was found to be equivalent to ingesting between 10,000 and 25,000 IU of vitamin D (Fig. 6). Doesn't say 30 minutes, but it may be 30 minutes depending on your skin colour and the local strength of the sun.

I think the OP's interpretation of this is wrong. Just because someone was found to have an equivalent of ingesting so and so much, after UV radiation, doesn't automatically imply that it a good idea to ingest any amount of vitamin D. Ingestion is different from exposing skin to UV/sun. The paper probably doesn't state, that ingesting that much will make a person absorb that much from that ingestion, nor does it stat…

I can't make any assesment on the quality of the paper as that is far outside my expertise, but as far as I can tell from a quick skim it does indeed make the claim that recommendations for supplements should be significantly increased.

From the abstract:

> The safe upper limit for children can easily be increased to 2,000 IU of vitamin D/day, and for adults, up to 10,000 IU of vitamin D/day has been shown to be safe. The goal of this chapter is to give a broad perspective about vitamin D and to introduce the reader to the vitamin D deficiency pandemic and its insidious consequences on health that will be reviewed in more detail in the ensuing chapters

The full article is available on researchgate[1]. Direct link to PDF [2].

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226676251_Vitamin_D...

[2] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael-Holick/publicat...

EDIT: I just looked up the author, Michael F. Holick. Apparently he is one the people who identified calcitriol in 1971. I know appeal to authority doesn't prove anything, but it might be prudent to at least consider his findings.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#253

Post by Esophagus4 »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Tangent… but for sweaty feet, try a ski boot dryer!

You can get them for $50… they dry out my shoes which makes them last a lot longer before they get so smelly I have to throw them away. Plus, who doesn’t like warm shoes in the morning?

That, and there are some creams called Sweat Block or whatever you can rub on your feet which reduce sweating. Those work as well.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#254

Post by fc417fc802 »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

> but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists

Well that but also they have poorly understood long term effects even after being discontinued (in some people, not others) and they don't work for everyone. The latter is probably most of the reason they get hated on. I don't recall the source but a given antidepressant only works for something like 1/3 or less of the population. So take a person not in a great place emotionally, who is also statistically not in a great place in life overall, subject them to an insufferable bureaucratic process, give them a drug that doesn't end up working for them, add in some pretty wild side effects, sprinkle on a few long term effects that persist after they discontinue the thing that didn't work to begin with, and of course you end up with a bad reputation.

The tl;dr is that our understanding of the brain and mood disorders kind of sucks.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#255

Post by b800h »

tripledry wrote: post #57
b800h wrote: post #10

Can I just add: In addition to this, if you struggle with anxiety or have some sort of ADHD, then try cutting out caffeine entirely . Not just switching to "decaf" (which isn't), but cutting out tea and coffee, and switching to an alternative like Barleycup. Doing this has had a massive positive effect for me, and combined with decent nutrition and daily exercise, has been wonderful.

How long would you say it takes to feel the effects after switching? I did this a couple of years ago and as far as I remember the only real effect was my energy levels were more stable. I gave it maybe 2-3 months and decided it's not worth it. Tempted to give it another shot!

I think some of the positive effects are very quick (better sleep) whereas others take longer to materialise. My wife commented after maybe 2-3 years that I had become much more organised. I think that happened because I came off caffeine and then adapted over time to having a different brain chemistry, so I learned techniques to organise myself that I wouldn't have stuck to had I carried on consuming caffeine.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#256

Post by b800h »

voidUpdate wrote: post #130
b800h wrote: post #10

Can I just add: In addition to this, if you struggle with anxiety or have some sort of ADHD, then try cutting out caffeine entirely . Not just switching to "decaf" (which isn't), but cutting out tea and coffee, and switching to an alternative like Barleycup. Doing this has had a massive positive effect for me, and combined with decent nutrition and daily exercise, has been wonderful.

I wish I could cut down on my caffeine intake to help my ADHD. Unfortunately, I already have basically zero caffeine intake (apart from diet coke sometimes)

Exercise is another good thing to do on a daily basis. It prevents me from self-medicating with alcohol.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#257

Post by b800h »

parag0ne wrote: post #170
grvdrm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. Can you describe what else you tried? Other supplements? Any other non-food/supplement techniques like journaling, breathing, etc.? Any therapy and other similar human interventions? After all those - is it / was it still the case that cutting caffeine drove the best outcome?

Not OP but I'll share my experience. For me, I have to quit caffeine for those to even become an option. Otherwise I get my short burst of productivity then everything shuts down after and I don't want to do a thing, everything feels "impossible" or like it doesn't matter at all. Things like journaling / breathing / etc calm the nervous system while caffeine stimulates it. I would say caffeine is counterproductive to…

I am OP, and I can confirm exactly this line of thought. Once I had given up caffeine, I was able to start using methods like Pomodoro and Eisenhower grids, and they actually worked.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#258

Post by pluralmonad »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

The US is heavily over-medicated, for sure. The pharma reps are very intimate with our doctors and it expresses as one might expect. If you go to the doc with nearly any significant complaint, you will very likely come away with some drugs. But it is not all doctors; people want easy fixes that do not require any change in habits. Not an easy problem to solve, systemically.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#259

Post by maximedupre »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

Imaging the number of people that this comment could inspire to get on SSRIs lol

I'm not saying it's a bad.

But I'm also saying there are no magic pills...!

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