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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

keck.usc.edu

251–260 of 661 posts

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#251

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I've had quite a few folks in my semi-rural north Georgia deep-red county (where our congressional rep wins landslide elections while literally saying Trump is like Jesus) who are convinced by my F150 Lightning.

It's not a hard sell: no more oil changes, no more annual emissions-testing bill, no transmission to ever worry about, and a massive chunk of storage under the hood where the gas engine would be – plus a bunch of outlets all over for powering or charging tools. When I then tell them that I spend about $30/month on charging the thing (at home) compared to my former gas budget of ~$150-200/month, it becomes even more of a no-brainer.

And none of this has anything to do with climate change. It's just plain and simple practicality.

They tend to ask about range. I get around 300 miles on a full charge when road-tripping, and Buc-ees has some pretty cheap chargers (still cheaper than gas would be) that get me back on the road in about the time it takes me to use the bathroom, grab and eat some brisket, and change the baby's diaper. I've done some shortish road-trips a few times now, and not had any problems. I've got some longer ones planned this year, now that I know that I can find chargers along the way.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#252

It also causes roads to be damaged/destroyed FAR faster due to the vehicales on average weighing significantly more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law It also simply moves the pollution to places like Africa where the extremely dirty lithium mining is externalized away from wealthy westerners. Environmental externalization.

And gasoline just magically appears at the gas station? Wars over oil are being fought for decades and nothing similar has happened over Lithium yet?

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#253
post #159
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

Speaking of smells.... One good thing about driving an EV is that weird oil or hot coolant smells are from someone else's car (and not a problem with your car) (although yes technically many EVs have coolant loops)

As the fleet of EV's age, I'm sure we'll see equivalents...

"The high voltage wires were just dragging on the street sparking, presumably with all the safety features disabled"

"They were driving with a 10 gallon coolant tank on the roof, presumably because the coolant loop had a big leak and needed continuous topping up".

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#254
post #145

Something that needs to be pointed out, especially for those who want to push back against findings like this and essentially defend ICE vehicles: Really step back and imagine a world where the modern EV [1] was first to market and a gasoline combustion engine was second . Who would actually decide to switch from a modern EV to gasoline on purpose of their own choice? The downsides of gasoline cars are actually prett…

> Baker Electric type of stuff

In the 1920s, a lot of auto startups had a unique idea. Then they got crushed by Henry Ford's and GM's production lines. And then the depression.

The Model T was a farm car. 50% of the population lived in rural areas, and they didn't have electricity. There was a market for an urban electric short-range car, it just didn't hit the economy of scale at the right time. But not because it was a bad idea.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#255
post #238
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even modern cars pollute a lot (especially in winter) because you need a certain temperature for the cats to start working. On short city trips it happens frequently that you never reach proper operating temperatures.

Yes, any cyclist daring to drive in winter can easily confirm this. It is so disgusting (and unhealthy) having to stand behind a ICE car on a traffic light and being behind a electric car is such a relief, that thoughts of wishing to ban all ICE cars as soon as possible (at least in cities) come automatically.

Modern ICE cars have auto start/stop systems, so on a traffic light it has as much exhaust as an EV.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#256
The real scandal isn’t just battery degradation… it’s that manufacturers have zero incentive to solve it. Your car becoming worthless after a decade suits them down to the ground.

Battery swapping changes the game entirely. Imagine a national network of exchange stations (co-located with existing petrol infrastructure, you can use the overhead canopy for solar). Standard pack sizes scaled by vehicle class: compact cars get 2 cells, vans get 4, lorries get 8.

Whoever owns these battery packs now has skin in the game for longevity. Their profit depends on keeping packs in service for 20+ years, not selling you a new car.

Suddenly the R&D money flows towards batteries that last, obsolescence now costs them money, and isn’t a happy accident that keeps you hooked on buying more cars.

You’d still have the option to buy your own packs outright if you only ever charge at home, but the network creates the economic pressure for genuine improvement of longevity in battery tech that’s completely missing today.

I’m aware that a company called “Better Place” failed. But they were a startup trying to strong-arm the automotive industry. A nationally coordinated infrastructure concern is different, and the air quality data from this study suggests we can’t afford to keep muddling through - and I really think that peoples concerns about batteries are not misplaced.

Perfect is the enemy of good, but damned if we can’t at least align incentives for better.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#257
post #256

The real scandal isn’t just battery degradation… it’s that manufacturers have zero incentive to solve it. Your car becoming worthless after a decade suits them down to the ground. Battery swapping changes the game entirely. Imagine a national network of exchange stations (co-located with existing petrol infrastructure, you can use the overhead canopy for solar). Standard pack sizes scaled by vehicle class: compact ca…

It will take a regulator fix. Likely from the EU, who brought us USBC instead of plugpack hell.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#258
I love EVs, ever since I test drove an BMW i3 in 2012. Quiet with high drag - of course this is the future.

BUT I don't think switching to EVs will help reduce CO2 in any way - not even if all the EVs are charged using 100% solar/wind. The narrative usually is "I get an EV instead of an ICE, charge it with regenerative energy and have 0 emissions, thus not burning oil and saving on CO2".

But that is not how a globalized world with free markets works. In order to save on CO2, we would need to keep that oil not burned by the EV underground, but that does not take place. The market reality is that oil price will just drop with less demand from ICE vehicles. But with falling prices, other business models that require refined oil will become viable and the oil is still burned - just somewhere else. No one so far has made a good argument why the Saudis or Russians would leave their ressources underground, just because demand from ICE vehicles drop.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really feels like more than 1 in 20 driving around the 101/280

Probably because Santa Clara County has more EV sales compared to its neighbors, according to this map: https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/zero-e...

And newer cars get driven more than old cars on average so 1/20 cars being EVs will do more than 1/20th of the miles.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#260
post #65

Hmmm. Do we have to do a study of that? The AQI around LHR was 3 when I went there last year. Then realized all gas cars are banned at the airport.

Assuming LHR is London Heathrow then ICE cars are not banned there. I drove and parked in short stay parking just a few weeks ago.
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