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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#251

Post by daveguy »

monkaiju wrote: post #198
daveguy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't going to be able to stop the next generation of candidates. And they aren't signing up to run to maintain the institution. This year and 2028 has the potential to be the Democrat's "tea party" moment (except for decent policies instead of destroying the government policies). And it's long overdue.

I've heard this since I canvased for Obama in 2008, before I could even vote. At this point expecting change through the electoral system seems worse than a waste, its a vacuum thats sucks up the radical energy we need to get real change.

The party is already being taken over by the energy we need -- AOC, Mandami, and more. Trump going full fascist fuck is a catalyst. We can have the left-wing reaponse to the tea party that really changes the country back to decency. Or we can just sit around all defeatist and whining, because that's worked so well in the past.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#252

Post by EastLondonCoder »

This isn’t really about Greenland’s strategic value; it’s about the category error. You can trade goods, sign treaties, and negotiate basing rights. You can’t “buy” a people or their sovereignty especially when they don’t consent. That’s why Europe responds with process and principle: normalize coercion-as-bargaining among allies and you’re reviving a pre-1945 model of politics Europe built institutions to prevent.

It’s also lose-lose for the US. There isn’t a positive outcome. If it’s dropped, the damage is “just” reputational and partly repairable. If it’s pursued: tariffs, threats, coercion. It burns trust inside NATO, accelerates European strategic decoupling, and hands a propaganda gift to every US adversary. A forced takeover would be a catastrophic own-goal: legitimacy crisis, sanctions/retaliation, and a long-term security headache the US doesn’t need.

And the deeper issue is credibility. The dollar’s reserve status and US financial leverage rest on the assumption that the US is broadly predictable and rule-bound. When you start treating allies like extractive targets, you’re not “winning” you’re encouraging everyone to build workarounds. Part of the postwar setup was that Europe outsourced a lot of hard security while the US underwrote the system; if the US turns that security guarantee into leverage against allies, you should expect Europe to reprice the relationship and invest accordingly.

The least-bad outcome is a face-saving off-ramp and dropping the whole line of inquiry. Nothing good comes from keeping it on the table.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#253

Post by cdrnsf »

daveguy wrote: post #182
cdrnsf wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can hope that enough democrats win to cause gridlock and impede more harm. However, the democrats don't offer much in the way of substantive reform and have never demonstrated the stomach for taking bold stances. Whenever a candidate does come along and propose bold change, the institutional democratic party goes out of their way to sabotage or undercut them (think AOC, Sanders, Mamdani et al).

They aren't going to be able to stop the next generation of candidates. And they aren't signing up to run to maintain the institution. This year and 2028 has the potential to be the Democrat's "tea party" moment (except for decent policies instead of destroying the government policies). And it's long overdue.

I very much hope so. I changed my registration to decline to state. California has open primaries, so I can still vote in them, but I couldn't stomach being associated with stubborn, institutional failure.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#255

Post by fritzorino »

malfist wrote: post #155
torlok wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Don't worry, we've not funded our government for a while now. National debt out front should have told ya

You are reliant on the kindness of strangers to fund your government spending.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#257

Post by __turbobrew__ »

Hamuko wrote: post #186
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.K. and France have nukes. Against a conventional army like the USA, that is all that matters.

Several European countries are also hosting American nukes on their soil. What happens to those in case the US starts an open war with those countries?

I think it is past time for Europe to ask the USA to leave their countries. That is something they can do which will significantly reduce the ability of the USA to project their power.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#258

Post by teiferer »

wtcactus wrote: post #163
827a wrote: post #9

If the EU is good at one thing, its definitely putting out statements.

[flagged]

Had Merkel not opened the border in 2015, Germany would be far worse off. If you ever set foot into a German retirement home, hospital, restaurant, random shop at the central station, cinema, xmas market, you name it, you realize that all those immigrants are currently carrying the economy.

She should get a prize for this instead of being blamed. Even if you don't care about the moral aspect of helping refugees.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#259

Post by mistrial9 »

koolba wrote: post #234
mistrial9 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

self-parody -- the levels of political ignorance among American voters is constantly displayed

Framing all of us who voted for and support the President’s actions as ignorant is lazy and inaccurate. There’s plenty of us that objectively analyzed the state of the country, the state of the world, and agree with the vast majority of these actions.

this online discussion format is impossible :-( I can tell you with certainty I did not think at all what you just said.. I cannot even imagine how you get that impression

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#260

Post by throwaway5235 »

jonkoops wrote: post #235
throwaway5235 wrote: post #95

[flagged]

We should not be allying with any oppressive and dictatorial states, the US is just rapidly sliding into becoming one, and nobody wants to acknowledge it because of the consequences it would imply. If you ask me, us Europeans need to find our self-confidence, we are more than able to compete, but too scared to take the risks and responsibilities to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I would love that! I would love for Europe to step up as world super power (union), a kin to the Non-Aligned Movement - but unfortunately I don't see it happening.
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