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Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

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Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#251

Post by mullingitover »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #209
yurishimo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a bridge to sell you if you think that Apple is going to bring any of their manufacturing to the US...

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c86jx18y9e2o Apple has responded and has started moving a lot of manufacturing out of China. It just makes sense for risk management.

Well, from your article:

> China will remain the country of origin for the vast majority of total products sold outside the US, he added.

And international sales are a solid majority of Apple's revenue.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#252

Post by zvorygin »

_the_inflator wrote: post #236
roughly wrote: post #92

This article repeatedly cites revenue growth numbers as an indicator of Nvidia and Apple’s relative health, which is a very particular way of looking at things. By way of another one, Apple had $416Bn in revenue, which was a 6% increase from the prior year, or about $25Bn, or about all of Nvidia’s revenue in 2023. Apple’s had slow growth in the last 4 years following a big bump during the early pandemic; their 5 year…

I agree. People confuse relative for absolute numbers. And ironically Apple acts like being a small contender the moment they feel some heat after a decade of relatively easy wins everywhere it seemed. So finally there is a company that gives Apple some much needed heat. That’s why I in absolute terms side with NVIDIA, the small contender in this case. PS: I had one key moment in my career when I was at Google and a…

How did you get into large scale manufacturing and production? Was it a career switch? Downsides? It too fascinates me. Any book recommendations?

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#253

Post by utopiah »

mitjam wrote: post #139

As a heavy user of OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google AI APIs, I’m increasingly tempted to buy a Mac Studio (M3 Ultra or M4 Pro) as a contingency in case the economics of hosted inference change significantly.

Don't buy anything physical, benchmark the models you could run on your potential hardware on (neo) cloud provider like HuggingFace. Only if you believe the quality is up to your expectation then do it. The test itself should take you $100 and few hours top.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#254

Post by onion2k »

Fiveplus wrote: post #6

Calling Nvidia niche feels a bit wild given their status-quo right now, but from a foundry perspective, it seems true. Apple is the anchor tenant that keeps the lights on across 12 different mature and leading-edge fabs. Nvidia is the high-frequency trader hammering the newest node until the arb closes. Stability usually trades at a discount during a boom, but Wei knows the smartphone replacement cycle is the only pr…

Nvidia have been using TSMC since the Riva 128. That's before Apple started making any of their own silicon. GPUs are easily as predictable as mobile phones.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#255

Post by epolanski »

michaelt wrote: post #250
epolanski wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly how it is supposed to work and Apple has outspent competitors for ages getting prio. TSMC isn't running a charity, it sells capacity to the highest bidder. Of course customers as big as Apple will have a relationship and insane volumes that they will be guaranteed important quotes regardless.

Why should it be short term, though? If it takes 4 years to build a new fab and Apple is willing to commit to paying pay the price of an entire fab, for chips to be delivered in 4 years time - why not take the order and build the capacity?

I mean, these things are likely already written down and Apple still gets lots of capacity for the reasons you mention.

But Nvidia has also spent billions/year in TSMC for more than a decade and this just keeps increasing.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#256

Post by Forgeties79 »

xp84 wrote: post #160
Forgeties79 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they arguably treat their suppliers relatively poorly compared to the Gold standard like Costco. I’m not saying you’re wrong but you’re previous paragraph sounding like you were wondering if it was the case vs. here you’re saying it’s known. Is this all true? Do they have a reputation for hammering their suppliers?

Apple is so notoriously ravenous for profit margin that they can’t not be that way.

It felt like a more confident statement and I was legitimately asking. I have little love for Apple. Ditched my Mac Studio earlier this year for a Linux only build after 20 years of being on Macs. I say this because I think folks think I am trying to sealion/“just ask questions:tm:” or some nonsense, when I am legitimately asking if this is a documented practice and what the extent is. I am not finding it easy to find info on this.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#257

Post by Y-bar »

boringg wrote: post #233
Y-bar wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVGA Terminates Relationship With Nvidia, Leaves GPU Business > According to Han, Nvidia has been difficult to work with for some time now. Like all other GPU board partners, EVGA is only told the price of new products when they're revealed to everyone on stage, making planning difficult when launches occur soon after. Nvidia also has tight control over the pricing of GPUs, limiting what partners can do to differen…

So not favorable to apple as a buyer.

Funnily enough Apple and Nvidia has old beef with one another, this especially led them to sever ties:

https://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/07/11/investigation-confir...

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#258

Post by kelnos »

Fiveplus wrote: post #6

Calling Nvidia niche feels a bit wild given their status-quo right now, but from a foundry perspective, it seems true. Apple is the anchor tenant that keeps the lights on across 12 different mature and leading-edge fabs. Nvidia is the high-frequency trader hammering the newest node until the arb closes. Stability usually trades at a discount during a boom, but Wei knows the smartphone replacement cycle is the only pr…

On the other hand, it's not like Apple can just switch fabs without any cost or difficulty. Sure, TSMC is undoubtedly happy to have a customer with predictable needs, but Apple is also subject to some level of lock-in.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#259

Post by AceJohnny2 »

onion2k wrote: post #254
Fiveplus wrote: post #6

Calling Nvidia niche feels a bit wild given their status-quo right now, but from a foundry perspective, it seems true. Apple is the anchor tenant that keeps the lights on across 12 different mature and leading-edge fabs. Nvidia is the high-frequency trader hammering the newest node until the arb closes. Stability usually trades at a discount during a boom, but Wei knows the smartphone replacement cycle is the only pr…

Nvidia have been using TSMC since the Riva 128. That's before Apple started making any of their own silicon. GPUs are easily as predictable as mobile phones.

> GPUs are easily as predictable as mobile phones

They really, absolutely, are not.

It's not about "will there be a new hardware", it's about "is their order quantity predictable"

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#260

Post by CodeWriter23 »

Aurornis wrote: post #215
anoojb wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say TMSC reciprocated Apple's consistency as a customer by giving them preferential treatment for capacity. It's good business after all. However, everyone knows that good faith reciprocity at that scale is not rewarded. Apple is ruthless. There are probably thousands of untold stories of how hard Apple has hammered it's suppliers over the years. While Apple has good consumer brand loyalty, they arguably tre…

At this scale and volume, it's not really about good faith. Changing fabs is non-trivial. If they pushed Apple to a point where they had to find an alternative (which is another story) and Apple did switch, they would have to work extra hard to get them back in the future. Apple wouldn't want to invest twice in changing back and forth. On the other hand, TSMC knows that changing fabs is not really an option and Apple…

Apple is the company that just over 10 years ago made a strategic move to remove Intel from their supply chain by purchasing a semiconductor firm and licensing ARM. Managing 'painful' transitions is a core competency of theirs.
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