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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#251

Post by northzen »

drittich wrote: post #112
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

Also a musician and I don't think it's that amusing. IMO this isn't an "AI can't be art" discussion. It's about the fact that AI can be used to extract value from other artists' work without consent, and then out-compete them on volume by flooding the marketplace.

> It's about the fact that AI can be used to extract value from other artists' work without consent, and then out-compete them on volume by flooding the marketplace.

What do you think about The Prodigy?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#252

Post by butlike »

olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Absolutely! Bandcamp has really been phenomenal these past few years for me as well

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#253

Post by kazinator »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #136
don-code wrote: post #123

A few months ago I spoke with the frontman of a local Boston band from the 1980s, who recently re-released a single with the help of AI. The source material was a compact cassette tape from a demo, found in a drawer. He used AI to isolate what would've been individual tracks from the recording, then cleaned them up individually, without AI's help. Does that constitute "wholly or in substantial part"? Would the track…

That feels legit to me. We have been using software to isolate individual instruments from a recording for a while.

We've been using software to fix grammar for a long time, and AI does it also. The question is valid: if I get an LLM to fix a few grammar errors in my own writing, am I ripping anyone off? We can't just dismiss the question just because grammar fixing is something we did without machine-learning AI trained on vast numbers of other people's texts.

The output does depend on training works, even if you are just fixing grammar errors. But the document is obviously a derivative of your own writing and almost nothing else. A grammatic concept learned from vast numbers of worsk is probably not a copyright infringment.

Similarly, a part extraction concept learned from training sets such as pairs of mixed and unmixed music, and then applied to someone's own music to do accurate part extraction, does not seem like an infringing use. All features of the result are identifiable as coming from the original mixed audio; you cannot identify infringing passages in it added by the AI --- and if such a thing happened, it would be an unwanted artifact leading us to re-do the part extraction in some other way to avoid it.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#254

Post by cigar_cigar »

newman8r wrote: post #50

If I have an exact idea of what I want something to sound like, and I'm able to use an automated system to create that, is that creative expression? Obviously AI isn't entirely capable of that, but eventually with BCI devices it might be. I've spent many hours learning to play guitar and ukulele but I'm really not very good, and probably never will be - but I can hear the music in my head I want to create. I'm not in…

That's how I feel about it too. I play piano well enough to get my ideas out and have used synthesizers and digital audio workstation software for years. I can sit down and carefully craft the music I have in my mind if I want to. Though I don't often have the time or the mental space to do so.

Or, I can make a barebones recording of musical ideas - of melodies, harmonies and the overall song structure - then upload it to Suno and inspire its robotic session musicians to play it in the style I ask. Quicker to make, faster to iterate upon, and can even be used as the basis for resynthesizing the track using more traditional methods.

Half-finished tracks, ideas that were only in my mind or existed only as badly recorded piano-bashed drafts, now (almost) fully fleshed out. It's immensely satisfying, and has made me even more creative as I use this tool to understand and explore musical styles I'm less familiar with.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#255

Post by autoexec »

peab wrote: post #180
Ritewut wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the definition of competition. You are just being drowned by AI music so no one can discover your music. Steam had the same issue years ago with asset flips drowning out the discoverability of actual titles and they implemented many curating tools to help resolve the issue. Acting like AI music isn't having a similar effort on genuine musicians is just playing dumb.

as a musician, the internet has made it that there already is a shit ton of competition. AI will make it worse sure, but it was already a 'problem' and never going to be solved. The thing is, you aren't entitled to distribution. Most musicians who make it these days work really hard at doing live shows, or growing a following on tiktok. once they have an audience - who cares about competition?

> The thing is, you aren't entitled to distribution.

That applies to people spamming AI slop too. People are right to complain about spammers. Platforms are right to try to stop spam, even though everyone knows that spam is a problem that is never going be solved.

> Most musicians who make it these days work really hard at doing live shows, or growing a following on tiktok.

Live shows, by their nature, have almost zero reach. A performance for 40 people takes place once in a single location at a specific time and then it's over. You're either there when it happens or you missed it. A song on youtube or bandcamp can be heard by millions quickly over a few weeks or gradually over years. Social media was a massive boon for musicians.

Sadly, it will get substantially harder to grow a following on tiktok or any other social media platform if those platforms are flooded with AI generated garbage. Real artists will be harder to find. Anyone doing anything new will be drowned out by AI regurgitating everything old. When creative people can't succeed, the creativity they'd inspire in others is lost and everything stagnates.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#256

Post by JohnFen »

nomel wrote: post #165
Ritewut wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how discoverability works. If it becomes too much of a chore to sort through the swamp people will often just opt for whatever is popular.

All of the "discoverability" algorithms are specifically and fundamentally about sifting through the millions to find the few that are preferred . That is their many-billion-dollar industry purpose. Spotify does a fantastic job with this, for me. > will often just opt for whatever is popular. Are you suggesting that people consume media they don't like? I'm not familiar with anyone that does this. I personally skip i…

> I'm not familiar with anyone that does this.

I see this a lot, actually. People put things on in the background, for instance, and don't really care if they like it or not (as long as they don't hate it). They just want noise. Or people just scrolling through their feeds without genuinely liking much in them.

In the old days, this was also how the majority of television was watched. People watched TV out of habit, and frequently watched things they didn't like because choices were limited and often there was nothing they actually like on. Thus all the complaints in the day about how "there's nothing on TV".

People are willing to sacrifice quite a lot of real enjoyment for convenience.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#258

Post by codexon »

input_sh wrote: post #250
codexon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I am one of the people who will say that. But where are the people calling for it to be banned? Where are the stores and websites that are banning AI generated software?

There's one popular platform that requires disclosing whether and how AI was used (Steam), and if you search anything about it, all you can find is like a sea of articles opposing it.

Yes and it was probably only done because of people complaining about AI art, not AI code.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#259

Post by vitaflo »

codexon wrote: post #183
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

I find it interesting that there's so much pushback against ai generated art and music while there seems to be very little for ai generated code.

Devs are quite used to using others peoples work for free via packages, frameworks and entire operating systems and IDE’s. It’s just part of the culture.

Music has its history in IP, royalties, and most things need to be paid for in the creation of music or art itself.

It’s going to be much easier for devs to accept AI when remixing code is such a huge part of the culture already. The expectation in the arts is entirely different.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#260

Post by butlike »

troupo wrote: post #212
beberlei wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe if you go down the rabbit hole of "mood playlists" and spotify created playlists, then you'll get a lot of tracks that they don't need to pay royalties for and that could probably include AI generated music. If you are explictitly looking for music by specific artists, then you get their music obviously.

> then you'll get a lot of tracks that they don't need to pay royalties for I love this conspiracy theory. Which track doesn't Spotify pay royalties for? Considering that it licenses 100% of its music from external distributors.

It's not really a conspiracy theory. YouTube users can use royalty-free music, it stands to reason Spotify would have the same (potentially internally) to decrease costs.

"Why pay royalties if it's just going to be BGM for a massage parlor?" could be their reasoning.

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