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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#251

Post by vablings »

chimprich wrote: post #114

A lot of these attacks on the UK regarding free speech are coming from the American Right, an obsession which I can't quite understand the motive for. Notably, stories on HN about the very severe repression on civil liberties in the US (get shot in the face for protesting about ICE...) get flagged for closure, but putting the boot into the UK for much more wishy-washy issues like this seem to be fair game. I'm not sa…

It feels pretty awful to have such a one-sided bias in the media of the UK getting clowned on for civil liberties, I have noticed so much more astroturfing on reddit about these issues with made-up ragebait lies.

There are absolutely issues with the police focusing more on "crime online" such as people posting or saying offensive things, I do think that saying something outright offensive to the benefit of nobody is a net bad for society but instead of punishing say British people for "wrong think" I think the police force should be really investigating where this kind of stuff comes from, Foreign influence bot farms ect and enact legal removal of protection to ensure that people when they say such online in a public manner are actually people

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#252

Post by vablings »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #153

I think Orwell was prescient and attuned to this sort of thinking in England at his time. Perhaps, it never really went away? e.g.: "crimestop" https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/725596-crimestop-means-the-... It isn't precrime or "dissent management" that is the problem, but the engineering of behavior and thought in society where such concepts are acceptable to people. I don't think we can discuss it in detail here,…

This doesn't work. The current POTUS is clearly trying to politicize the chair of the federal reserve who is independent and for his sociopathic fanbase it is working a treat, they do not even understand that Powell is not the sole decision maker of the interest rates

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#253

Post by RansomStark »

teh64 wrote: post #159
RansomStark wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what you mean by English. England is a country, but you can't have an English passport, you can only get a UK passport. so, English is a kinda-sorta a non-nationality, but it is very much an ethnic group. I don't think anyone is claiming that Rishi Sunak isn't a UK citizen, but he certainly isn't a member of the English ethnic group, or any of the Celtic ethnic groups that also make up the UK's…

If we go by the explanation from wikipedia [0], Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage would not be considered English, as their families are not part of the English or Celtic ethnic groups. Their ancestors are Turkish and German who came to the UK after 1850. Do you believe they are not English? I mean even the current King of the UK would not be considered English by your definition! He is descended from Greek, Danish and…

I agree, they are not ethnically English, they are British citizens and have all the rights that come with citizenship, the same as every other UK citizen including those that would call themselves English. You think there's some kind of gotcha there, but there isn't.

England hasn't had an English king since 1066, that's not controversial, and even then the inbreeding between the European royal houses was creating a pan-european elite that made world world 1 more of a really bad family argument than anything else.

What's really odd is that Rishi Sunak is extremely proud of his ethnicity and heritage, it's unfortunate that we've made it almost impossible for other people's to have that same pride.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#254

Post by RansomStark »

foldr wrote: post #150
RansomStark wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what you mean by English. England is a country, but you can't have an English passport, you can only get a UK passport. so, English is a kinda-sorta a non-nationality, but it is very much an ethnic group. I don't think anyone is claiming that Rishi Sunak isn't a UK citizen, but he certainly isn't a member of the English ethnic group, or any of the Celtic ethnic groups that also make up the UK's…

The usual meaning of English. Say, roughly the criteria that would make someone eligible to play for the England football team. Skin color has nothing to do with it, and I can assure you that very few English people either know or care whether they have any ‘Celtic’ ancestry. No-one questions the Englishness of white men born in England to two non-English parents. People raising the absurd non-issue of Rishi Sunak’s…

Sports teams aren't a particularly good criteria, I could be Scottish or Welsh and play for England, it's one of those idiocracies of living in a country that pretends to be 4.

Denying the existence of an ethic group is extremely racist, and is often considered a precursor to other much more serious issues.

If you have any acquaintance with English history you would be well aware that there are native ethnic groups that have been in the UK since approximately the end of the younger dryas around 11,000 years ago.

The last major migration was the anglo-saxons around 1500 years ago.

These groups still exist and the majority of the UK population can still trace their origin back to one of these groups.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#255

Post by gherkinnn »

TuringNYC wrote: post #5

Black Mirror continues to be a 5-7yr leading indicator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mirror

Shocking. I enjoyed Black Mirror from the start but found it a bit on the nose. A Prime Minister fucking a pig? That's a bit much. And before you know it, certain rumours of David Cameron arise.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#256

Post by ddq »

simmerup wrote: post #227
throwaway85825 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that physically unlikely.

Well we know they support the people that do

Then why did you say 80-year old women were "the type to sledgehammer police officers though apparently" and then immediate shift the goalposts? Further, the statement "The only people being arrested in the Uk are for supporting a proscribed group" is patently false; the UK government has not limited its arrests for social media posts to those expressing support for Hamas. You are not engaging in good faith discussion.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#258

Post by foldr »

RansomStark wrote: post #254
foldr wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual meaning of English. Say, roughly the criteria that would make someone eligible to play for the England football team. Skin color has nothing to do with it, and I can assure you that very few English people either know or care whether they have any ‘Celtic’ ancestry. No-one questions the Englishness of white men born in England to two non-English parents. People raising the absurd non-issue of Rishi Sunak’s…

Sports teams aren't a particularly good criteria, I could be Scottish or Welsh and play for England, it's one of those idiocracies of living in a country that pretends to be 4. Denying the existence of an ethic group is extremely racist, and is often considered a precursor to other much more serious issues. If you have any acquaintance with English history you would be well aware that there are native ethnic groups t…

>If you have any acquaintance with English history you would be well aware that there are native ethnic groups that have been in the UK since approximately the end of the younger dryas around 11,000 years ago.

And you'd be aware that nothing even vaguely corresponding to 'England' existed 11,000 years ago. If you are willing to lump the descendants of Romans, Normans, Jutes, Durotriges, Iceni, Vikings, etc. together into one group and call them all 'English' just because they happened to live in the territory of what is now England, then you've already conceded the point that the identity is national, not ethnic.

But hey, over in the other thread you are denying that Boris Johnson is English, so it's clear that you have a rather eccentric concept of the category.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#259

Post by TuringNYC »

gherkinnn wrote: post #255
TuringNYC wrote: post #5

Black Mirror continues to be a 5-7yr leading indicator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mirror

Shocking. I enjoyed Black Mirror from the start but found it a bit on the nose. A Prime Minister fucking a pig? That's a bit much. And before you know it, certain rumours of David Cameron arise.

I think that one PM episode was the only one totally out of whack. The rest were quite on point. There are dozens of episodes deep in the realm of reality.

https://variety.com/lists/black-mirror-best-episodes/

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#260

Post by youngtaff »

chimprich wrote: post #114

A lot of these attacks on the UK regarding free speech are coming from the American Right, an obsession which I can't quite understand the motive for. Notably, stories on HN about the very severe repression on civil liberties in the US (get shot in the face for protesting about ICE...) get flagged for closure, but putting the boot into the UK for much more wishy-washy issues like this seem to be fair game. I'm not sa…

Yup… there's a very strong right wing streak in parts of the HN audience

Those with opposing views also tend to find themselves rate limited - dropped two comments on this story and now being told I'm posting too fast (even after going away for 60 mins)

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