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The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

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Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#251

Post by klipklop »

fn-mote wrote: post #234
klipklop wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that so many here are speculating that this ban is to stop "freedom fighters" in the US and not the obvious case that the US has wanted to reduce dependence on China in areas of critical technology. Drones are not going away in the US, they will just not be made by their primary political adversary. Let's not be hyperbolic, the US is nowhere close to having a revolution or civil War. People need to stop g…

I will believe this argument when everything else from domestic appliances to phones is not also made by “their primary political adversary”.

So Apple trying to move iPhone production to places like Vietnam does not count? Apple already makes some of their devices in Vietnam now (not iPhone yet.) These things can't happen over night. This decoupling might take decades. Or just be abandoned by the next administration. Who knows?

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#252

Post by lazide »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #212
lazide wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the article, it says it also bans motors, controllers, etc. pretty much all major parts.

Wow, the title of the article really buries the lead as this is a much bigger deal than banning new versions of fully assembled drones made by a Chinese company. I can’t even think of another country that makes 4S Lipo batteries or the motors or the ESC’s or the VTX or the GPS module..

Yup, it essentially defacto bans civilian drones - unless something pretty major changes with domestic manufacturing anyway.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#253

Post by vibrio »

KolibriFly wrote: post #164
glitchc wrote: post #84

This ban has more to do with how much geodetic data is being transmitted to China and less to do with the actual drone technology. People flying DJI drones are mapping the US on China's behalf, and that too with great fidelity.

Yet DJI drones don't automatically stream raw imagery or mapping data back to China by default

lol. The battery life seems so short, I was starting to wonder whether this was the case...

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#254

Post by alex43578 »

sophacles wrote: post #247
alex43578 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) He’s absolutely saying they were free. B) Ironic that you say some people have no ability to see the wider perspective while falling for the broken window fallacy of economics.

A) I absolutely was not. I was refuting that we sent $175B to Ukraine. We sent weapons, and spent money in the USA. Basic reading comprehension would be a useful skill for you to have in this thread... see I literally declared the US spent money in both posts. I was just saying where the money was spent.

To quote Wikipedia on the broken window fallacy: The money spent on the war effort (or peacetime defense spending), for example, is money that cannot be spent on food, clothing, health care, or other sectors of the economy. The stimulus felt in one sector of the economy comes at a direct – but hidden – cost (via foreclosed production possibilities) to other sectors.

A basic understanding of economics would be useful for you to have in this thread.

We are sending Ukraine something of value: cash, weapons, whatever. That value leaves the US and therefore cannot be used for something else, fired in defense of US interests, or used to deter threats to the taxpayer who bought it.

Your initial point that “it’s fine to send this value to Ukraine because now we get to spend more money” to replace it is ridiculous.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#255

Post by elzbardico »

loudmax wrote: post #151
ivell wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway is that all previous U.S. administrations had pretense of morality and rules in both international and domestic politics (even when they did dubious stuff). The new administration has realized that there is no need for such pretense to stay in power. Previously Venezuelan attack would have been about "democracy" and "freedom" and "peace". Trump has made it clear that it is for oil. Overall it is probably…

No. That is excessively cynical. Even GW Bush and the neocons really thought toppling Hussein would benefit Iraqis more than just Americans. That invasion turned out to be a complete disaster that probably benefited Islamist radicals more than anybody else. But it's a mistake to think that the neocons didn't believe their own bullshit. The top leadership really believed they could turn Iraq into a liberal democracy a…

"Even GW Bush and the neocons really thought toppling Hussein would benefit Iraqis more than just Americans."

There's not a single drop of evidence supporting that. But we have madleine albright callously dismissing the death of an enormous amount of kids.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#256

Post by like_any_other »

Kapura wrote: post #2

Seeing how drone warfare has become the new hot front in 21st century conflicts like Ukraine, it's hard not to speculate on the implications of this as political unrest continues to rise in the U.S. It's no secret that the current U.S. regime views a sizeable portion of its own civilian citizens as enemy combatants. They are already shooting people in the face and not even putting up a pretense of acting shocked at t…

> They are already shooting people in the face and not even putting up a pretense of acting shocked at the act.

Are you talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Justine_Damond? Yes her killer got off with a slap on the wrist, but even in 2017 when that happened it was nothing new - there have been plenty of unjustified or dubious police killings before and since [1], so I'm confused by that "already" in your sentence - nothing has changed, has it?

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#257

Post by kevin42 »

showerst wrote: post #14

I'm in favor of tighter regulation on drone imports, both for national security reasons and to try to jumpstart a US drone industry. Not allowing _any_ foreign made components, however, is insane, as is not even auditing DJI when they didn't put up a fight. They have to know they're just killing the small drone industry completely.

I would love to see the US drone industry thrive, it's a major gap in both the consumer and military market.

At the same time, several businesses have and are trying to compete in this business. The amount of capital required is enormous if anyone is going to compete with DJI and the like. I personally know someone in this situation. They have a great product and some traction, but going from low quantity bespoke solutions to cost competitive large scale manufacturing costs hundreds of millions.

And the problem is, investors don't trust that the ban is going to last forever. The government could reverse the ban at any time, and that puts the US company back in a position where they can't compete with DJI, so the investors lose money. And they know that.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#258

Post by elzbardico »

ivell wrote: post #197
loudmax wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That is excessively cynical. Even GW Bush and the neocons really thought toppling Hussein would benefit Iraqis more than just Americans. That invasion turned out to be a complete disaster that probably benefited Islamist radicals more than anybody else. But it's a mistake to think that the neocons didn't believe their own bullshit. The top leadership really believed they could turn Iraq into a liberal democracy a…

I can understand that point of view from a U.S. citizen's (and allied West) point of view that you think US is really ideological. But as a non-US person, even when US pretended to be ideological, there is an underlying reality of maintaining hegemony, access to resources, etc. When there was a large scale genocide in Bangladesh by Pakistan, US not only implicitly supported Pakistan, but also attempted to block/attac…

The US got involved with Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, because they were enemies of Vietnam.

This says enough.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#259

Post by mothballed »

jjk166 wrote: post #233
mothballed wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your position is completely untenable here and relies on it being easier to destroy multiple 'industrial bases' plus the US drone industry rather than your straw man of just the "entire" US industrial base. Even going off your theory that the US drone industry is not easily sabotaged, it can't possibly be easier to sabotage the US drone industry plus all the import pathways (which you would otherwise have to re-estab…

I am not arguing it is easier to destroy the world's industrial capacity than just the US industrial capacity. I am saying that in the situation where you have so utterly devastated the US mainland that it is incapable of producing drones, the war is over. If you defeat the US then you defeat the US. Of course I am rather dismissive of the claim that this is a small feat. I accuse you of not fully thinking through wh…

I see, you think my argument is moot because a successful sabotage or halt of domestic drone production is a victory condition for war.

It's an interesting strategy to sidestep the conversation; rather than acknowledging the superiority of having redundant international supply chain you can just suggest it doesn't really matter anyway if US drone capacity is gone because at that point the war is lost.

I don't see the evidence for why this must be true, whether you think it is a 'small feat' or not.

Re: The U.S. Government Just Followed Through on Its Ban of DJI Drones

#260

Post by fidotron »

robomartin wrote: post #246
fidotron wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These solutions are priced well for commercial and industrial solutions at scale. Translation: they're expensive, and getting them working involves jumping through hoops more complex than simply getting boards off Amazon and launching VS Code. They aren't equivalent, and the sneering isn't helping. It is failing to understand this that opens the door to DJI and Bambu, who unsurprisingly prioritize user experience a…

> Translation: they're expensive, and getting them working involves jumping through hoops more complex than simply getting boards off Amazon and launching VS Code. They aren't equivalent, and the sneering isn't helping. Who's sneering? Complexity is a relative assessment. Bringing up 8, 16 and 32 bit MCUs/SoC's has never in history been easier. Decades ago we used to have to bring up our boards from nothing, sometime…

You're missing the point: the line between hobbyist and prototype now doesn't exist - there is a continuum where devices are made in single digits, tens of units, and progressively scaled up. This isn't the 80s/90s where you make none or thousands. Even those Amazon made wall socket relay things are ESP based after all.

In this universe the old way of doing things makes no sense.

> Who's sneering?

Your comment was, and you still are like:

> However, understand that the commercial/industrial market is orders of magnitude larger than the hobby markets, and the rules and requirements are different.

In fact the hobby market now has _tougher_ requirements (particularly for software support, which Wifi necessitates) than the commercial and industrial one, and would not tolerate the level of random hacks/erratum that are spat out by the major chip providers.

This is classic bottom up disruption.

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