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The Post-American Internet

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251–260 of 479 posts

Re: The Post-American Internet

#251

Post by aebtebeten »

627467 wrote: post #218

I like the initial emphasis on the trade treaties of his talk. IMO the scope and amount of these treaties have been unacceptable and the only reason they passed were due to the framing of thia magical thinking that any increased trade is always great "enlarging the pie" and everyone ignores the fact that it creates a huge monoculture that is unable to accommodate people's with vastly different needs. These treaties a…

> [trade] creates a huge monoculture that is unable to accommodate people's with vastly different needs

How so? Cash on the barrelhead doesn't care which cultures are on either side. During the Cold War, capitalists and communists traded with each other. I myself have traded with people whose language and culture I hadn't the foggiest of.

Monoculture is problematic, yes, but its roots must be in something other than trade.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#252

Post by TrackerFF »

pu_pe wrote: post #2

> If the EU repeals Article 6 of the Copyright Directive, some smart geeks in Finland could reverse-engineer Apple's bootloaders and make a hardware dongle that jailbreaks phones so that they can use alternative app stores Apple could easily block this, and in the situation described here of a complete rupture with the US, they would no longer operate and sell phones in the EU. If Google decided to do the same, that…

Well, two issues here:

1) The moment US decides to completely exit EU and brick their devices, China will step in and provide the alternatives. Or it will trigger some tech arms race inside Europe, and we will see European providers rise up.

2) US Tech companies can't afford to pull out. They might do some short-lived performative black-outs to show European customers how dependent they are, and they will for sure run to the government, who in turn will start trade wars. But in the end they simply can't afford to just pull out completely.

As others have mentioned, not only is it a danger to their own revenue, but the US stock market is being carried by these tech companies.

The US has always profited the most from providing products / services which are better and cheaper to Europe, to such a degree that organic growth has been naturally suppressed.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#253

Post by acdha »

petcat wrote: post #211
clijsters wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that china is not in EU?

"just following the rules" is the same argument made to justify censorship in China as it is in the EU.

Yes? It’s not exactly a surprise that you are expected to follow the laws where you do business. This doesn’t mean those laws are inherently good or bad, that’s a judgement which requires analysis to make and businesses quite reasonably might choose not to stay in a market based on that decision as Google did with China.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#254

Post by miroljub »

Quothling wrote: post #4

I've spent a couple of decades in the Danish public sector of digitalisation and in the private sector for global green energy. 10 years ago people would've laughed if you talked about leaving Microsoft and iOS in enterprise. Now we all have contingency plans for just that, and a lot of organisations are already actually doing it. So I would argue that there is more of a crack, but I'm not sure the post-american inte…

[flagged]

Re: The Post-American Internet

#255

Post by petcat »

tokai wrote: post #213
flanked-evergl wrote: post #64

European countries are de facto vassals of the US. Not because they have to be, not because it benefits them, but because this is what the politicians and their voters want. Instead of taking care of Ukraine themselves, and providing security guarantees to Ukraine themselves, they expect the US to do it. Instead of supplying Ukraine itself, they need the US to do it. And all of this against an opponent, Russia, that…

US hasn't provided anything, except some intel, the last year. Maybe you should get up to speed with reality.

Did the Europeans build all those Patriot missile systems themselves?

They bought them from USA right?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#256

Post by mk89 »

immibis wrote: post #51
mk89 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think nobody in the EU believes that America is the country of freedom and privacy and anonymity. (Boolean and) I guess what the OP meant is that in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA, not because they don't have data about you, but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass. Twitter, Tiktok, etc could…

Sure they could. You'd just have to answer subpoenas when the police are trying to identify a user, same as in the USA. You might get a few more of them. Recently a bunch of French people received jail time for repeatedly posting how the president was a pedophile and his wife was a man. Because, you know, harassment is illegal in many European countries. But the only obligation by the service provider, if asked, woul…

The second paragraph is exactly why people don't trust when a platform is based in EU.

I never heard of American presidents going after individuals on Twitter or other platforms. Neither Obama, nor Biden and also not Trump who is receiving so much hatred and bad words, without even touching the assassination attempt. Which is probably the only reason why they threatened to go after people, but that seems to be understandable - and I think that's the line you should not cross in a forum/platform.

The mindset is completely different.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#257

Post by viktorcode »

> We wouldn't tolerate secrecy in the calculations used to keep our buildings upright, and we shouldn't tolerate opacity in the software that keeps our tractors, hearing aids, ventilators, pacemakers, trains, games consoles, phones, CCTVs, door locks, and government ministries working.

Construction industry if full of privately owned technologies and closed source software, from architectural drawing board up to the last glass panel in a window.

Building are staying upright not because of openness, but because of the enforced standards for construction. Same can be applied to software orders.

Want to prevent a government office suite to be bricked remotely? Put forth requirements for autonomous work, self hosting, multiyear coverage for critical patches and ability to export the data at any moment in the format of your preference. Whoever provides this will get the contract.

This seems to me far more realistic aim than trying to enforce global legal straight jacket to be universally applied to all software and hardware products available for purchase in your country

Re: The Post-American Internet

#258

Post by hermanzegerman »

drstewart wrote: post #160
hermanzegerman wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't 100% reliant on Russian Oil, and the EU has made decisions again and again to reduce the reliance on Russia for Energy against the resistance of some members

Oh my mistake, 100% reliant on Russian oil that's shipped via India. Much better!

Keep repeating that false claim, instead of doing a little bit of research. I know it takes a bit of effort, but it would make you certainly less ignorant

We receive Oil from multiple Suppliers including Norway, United States, Kazakhstan, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria.

The Russian Oil via India is certainly less than 30%

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re: The Post-American Internet

#259

Post by aebtebeten »

ta9000 wrote: post #214

Americans aren’t your enemy. We’re just as upset by these idiots running our government as you are.

> We’re just as upset by these idiots

The former soviets were upset with their empire, and got rid of it themselves.

Is there any reason you all would not be capable of doing what they did?

Re: The Post-American Internet

#260

Post by miroljub »

Fnoord wrote: post #246
Quothling wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that EU surveillance is greater than US surveillance is almost certainly mistaken. Well yes, but that doesn't mean we want EU surveillance to replace it.

If my choice is an American company which does tracking, and a European company which does tracking, then I as European prefer the European one. Because they can be held accountable in a court of law. In Russia or China, that isn't the case. And it doesn't seem like it remains the case in USA. SCOTUS, for example, has been a political instrument for a long, long time.

As an European I'd be rather tracked by an American (out Chinese, Russian, ...) company than by an EU or European regimes.

Those companies are less likely to imprison or censor me than the regime who rules over Europe.

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