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Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

andrew.grahamyooll.com

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Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#251

Post by bena »

mlrtime wrote: post #222
ManlyBread wrote: post #202

Ah, the classic "work even harder and do things you're not paid for with zero guarantee that someone will appreciate what you're doing while the company reaps the benefits". What a novel thought, I am so glad I clicked the article, especially since the author isn't even speaking from experience so he has nothing to back up his blogpost with.

Listen, you don't have to do this and are free to disagree. However, this method has worked and will continue to work. Lots of people are fine just doing their shift and leaving, that's ok. Some people are not satisfied with that and want more, and there are strategies to do more work and get paid to do so.

There's a matrix, with each cell being weighted differently.

Do free work. Do good work. Be liked by your superiors.

And sadly "good work" is weighted the lowest. And if you are liked enough by your superiors, that's often enough.

And you are actively disliked by your superiors, it does not matter how much work you do or how good it is. You will plateau.

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#253

Post by runjake »

This was always my secret to getting a job I’m not qualified for on paper.

At one point early in my career the old engineer left. I quickly stepped in “just until they hired somebody qualified”. Back then, a 4 year CS degree was required to get the job.

For reasons I can’t recall, we couldn’t hire someone for 6 months. My boss and I had a meeting with HR where he pleaded my case to get me hired. The HR director was actually yelling that I wasn’t qualified.

My boss calmly replied “He’s been doing it for the past 6 months. He’s actually been making improvements. Remember that process of yours that suddenly got a lot better? He did that.” I ended up getting hired right there. There was further drama about me being at my pay scale without a degree but my boss shielded me from much of it.

For that 6 months and for another 12 months after, I probably spent 18 hours a day working or learning to get up to speed. I was single and motivated so it worked out. Loved that boss.

That was many decades ago so I keep an eye out for that spark among my colleagues. I occasionally see it but for the most part, they are much more ambitious than I was and that warms my heart. (Two of them started companies you’ve heard of and cashed out)

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#254

Post by jaylaal »

wiseowise wrote: post #223
jaylaal wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Seriously, ref, I'm good enough to win. No need to play the game, you can just hand me the gold medal now!"

Except work is nothing like professional sport. Your example is detached from reality. It's more like being hired as a plumber and start doing secretary work for your boss for free. There's a price tag on your services, why would give it out for free for some nebulous chance of getting a promo? Peak stupidity.

How's the boss going to know you can do secretarial stuff if he hired you as a plumber?

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#255

Post by ramraj07 »

halls-940 wrote: post #225
ryanjshaw wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Felt like AI slop. I used to do what it recommends, and it got me nowhere other than more stress and higher expectations from senior management.

I was reprimanded at three different software companies for doing exactly this, and not "staying in my lane" or "trying to do the senior person's job". So it only applies if you're already ahead of schedule on all your assigned work (difficult if they keep increasing your backlog), and the manager likes you but sees you as non-threatening, and people aren't territorial about RFCs.

Part of growing up is also knowing WHEN to do the extra, thinking about whether this will undermine people who dont like to be undermined, and then more fundamentally, what the hell am I doing in such a politically toxic place?

Its not just about going above and beyond. Its going above and beyond exactly where it will get you the best outcome and nowhere else.

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#256

Post by Phelinofist »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #209
ManlyBread wrote: post #202

Ah, the classic "work even harder and do things you're not paid for with zero guarantee that someone will appreciate what you're doing while the company reaps the benefits". What a novel thought, I am so glad I clicked the article, especially since the author isn't even speaking from experience so he has nothing to back up his blogpost with.

Felt like AI slop. I used to do what it recommends, and it got me nowhere other than more stress and higher expectations from senior management.

It actually worked for me, got my last promotion that way (IC -> EM)

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#257

Post by Treegarden »

halls-940 wrote: post #225
ryanjshaw wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Felt like AI slop. I used to do what it recommends, and it got me nowhere other than more stress and higher expectations from senior management.

I was reprimanded at three different software companies for doing exactly this, and not "staying in my lane" or "trying to do the senior person's job". So it only applies if you're already ahead of schedule on all your assigned work (difficult if they keep increasing your backlog), and the manager likes you but sees you as non-threatening, and people aren't territorial about RFCs.

I mean is it not clear that companies are just an abstraction for a network of people, and you obviously must be be good with those people, ie seduce them into promoting you. And is it not clear that on the other side, you must keep your options open such that you find an alternative (job) if they are weird / toxic / dont like you / you dont like them?

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#258

Post by blktiger »

rendaw wrote: post #187
GMoromisato wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good question. I compressed too much: instead of "performance at your boss's level" I really meant, "helping to achieve your boss's goals". If you're an engineering IC in a team of 5, what are your boss's goals? It's usually things like: hit your deadlines, avoid production bug catastrophes, and maybe add features that make the sales people happy. How can your boss achieve those goals? I have a few ideas: a…

I think those are good examples. I think part of the confusion is that most of those are typical responsibilities of e.g. senior level IC work, so "performance at your boss's level" looks more or less the same as "performance at your current IC level". Which is good advice! Do your job well!

I'd say it's about doing things at the next level to show you're ready for that level. So for moving from a Sr to a Staff position might involve doing more mentoring of the team, showing that you are using your knowledge to improve the efficiency of both your team and other teams, etc.

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#259

Post by wat10000 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #249
Shalomboy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to diminish your skepticism, but your reply comes off jaded in a way that might be hurting you. The author's suggestion for employees seeking promotion is to operate on a higher level than they're asked to and keep operating in that fashion for a sustained window of time. Show growth, in other words.

This reads to me like you translated GP’s cynical post into something more palatable to the politically-minded. You’ve said the same thing.

They're both correct, in different contexts.

Some workplaces see people going above and beyond and reward that. Promotions come from operating at the level you want to be promoted to.

Some workplaces see it as a signal that they don't need a promotion because they can get the higher level work from you without the need to pay you more.

Know which one you're in before you decide how to approach it. If you've been there a while you should be able to figure out how things work. It's important to see how they actually work and not how you think they should work, otherwise you can end up doing a bunch of extra work for free.

Re: Try to take my position: The best promotion advice I ever got

#260

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

ManlyBread wrote: post #202

Ah, the classic "work even harder and do things you're not paid for with zero guarantee that someone will appreciate what you're doing while the company reaps the benefits". What a novel thought, I am so glad I clicked the article, especially since the author isn't even speaking from experience so he has nothing to back up his blogpost with.

You should work harder and do things you aren’t paid for. In my 30 year experience across 10 jobs - everything from small lifestyle companies to BigTech and currently working as a staff consultant - it’s not to get a promotion at your current job, it’s to have a story to tell at your next job.

Speaking of BigTech specifically, the first company I worked for with a real promotion process that meant anything, the promo process is brutal and then you still get paid less than someone coming in at the same level.

The best bet is to get another job at another company at a higher level (or even at the same level that pays more).

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